Florence: Hi everybpdy

Annie: Hi all

Stephanie: Glad to meet you Alex, thanks for the pictire of you and...

Michael B: Alex...what steps can be taken in such a short period of time?

Michael B: Hi Gary

Stephanie: Hi Annie and Florence and Gary

Annie: How are you, Stephanie?

Michael B: Hi Annie

Annie: thought you were going to the lake

Alex Jack:The first step is simply becoming aware of the issue. Most people have no idea how widespread this is.

Annie: Hi Michael

Michael B: ...and even if they do..they seem to not care (americans anyway)

Florence: Hi White WolffSpirit

Alex Jack:They care when they know, but most do not know. Polls show the vast majority are not aware that GA foods are on the market.

Annie: Hello White, Bill and bob

Bill: hello all

Michael B: Hey Bill

WhiteWolffSpirit: Hi Florence

bob hague: hello all

Annie: Hello Scott : Hello Scott

Stephanie: What worries me is they don't see the difference between genetic alteration and Mendell's Hybrids. Mendell simply cross polinated , he did nothing to alter the genetics

Bill: welcome Scott

Michael B: There's been issues here locally..w/ the destruction of GE corn planted by UC Berkeley

Scott Waterhouse: Hello Bill

Bill: Scott, thanks for the Welles thing...it's interesting in context

Scott Waterhouse: How so?

Alex Jack:Crop destruction is beginning to spread. Crops have been destroyed in New England, the Midwest, and the West Coast.

Scott Waterhouse: Why destroyed?

Stephanie: Hi Scott W, bob , Bill White WolfSpirit

Alex Jack:Because they were genetically modified.

Bill: looking at the time period and their views on living longer....for example...I only have read the first chapter

Scott Waterhouse: For what specific reason and authorized by whom [destroyed]

Michael B: many GE supporters claim biotech will feed the third world...I think it's about MONEY

Annie: How do we know that organic produce is not GE?

Scott Waterhouse: both ideas are not mutually exclusive Mike

Annie: Hi Kim

Stephanie: Hi Kim

Florence: Hre in Switzerland GA food are forbidden por the present time

Kim: Hi everyone!

Alex Jack:The threat to organic food is very real and organic farmers around the country are reporting contamination.

Bill: So, Alex, I think it has already gone too far...let's assume that that's the case...what is the solution?

Scott Waterhouse: contamination of what?

Stephanie: Hi Kaare

Michael B: cross-pollination makes us all guinea-pigs

Annie: Hi Kaare

Bill: morning Kaare...

Kathy: Hello everyone

Michael B: Hi Kaare

Annie: welcome, Kathy

Scott Waterhouse: things "cross pollinate in nature

Kim: Organic corn crops showing up with GE genes and such.

Alex Jack:There has been a big shift this summer and agricultural biotechnology is in retreat.

Bill: Alex, in other words, we will continue no matter what...

Stephanie: And do we know that the genuine plant accepts pollin from the geneticall altered seed?

Annie: Hello Eliz

Elizabeth: hey everybody

Kathy: Hi Eliz

Stephanie: Hello Elizabeth : Hi Elizabeth

Florence: Hi Elisabeth

Elizabeth: hi Kathy and Annie and Stephanie and Gary

Elizabeth: and Florence

Elizabeth: :)

Elizabeth: hey Scott!

Michael B: yes it does stephanie...as proven by the deaths of those butterflies (feeding on milkwd)eed

Bill: Alex, but I don't see the biomanipulation thing stopping at all...it will eventually proliferate in most every sense

Scott Waterhouse: Hi Elizabeth

Alex Jack:Over the last few days there have been reports that the U.S. government is about to announce a new labeling policy. But then other spokesmen denied it.

Annie: So, as usual we don't get the whole truth

Scott Waterhouse: they don't label irradiated food....personally I am MUCH more concerned about that

Stephanie: When someone as big as Monzanto has bought out many of the large seed companies, ... it doesn't look good

Alex Jack:Right now, economics are killing the GA industry. The investment community is turning against it. It's simply bad business.

Bill: Alex, what do yhou think the long term effects of GE food are going to be?

Scott Waterhouse: not with the special soybean, Alex

Kaare: Well. That is good news - proably means the GA industry will ask for subsidies

Alex Jack:Dutsche Bank, the world's biggest, for example, put out a major report saying the industry is dead on arrival.

Michael B: Its another corporate grab...there's big $$$ to be made

Stephanie: Yes, Kaare, that sounds right on.

Bill: Yea, but the farmers are wanting it because it makes farming easier and more productive...

Scott Waterhouse: Where is the money, Mike?

Bill: and what does McDonalds and others care...they're pushing crap anyway : But then again for non GE crops, farmers can get more money for their crops

Stephanie: I hope that's true, Alex... and not just to lull us back to slumber.

Michael B: in those 3rd world countries Scott

Alex Jack:I think we will win on the food labeling and the public won't buy GA foods. But the next big wave of GA products is for medicine and that won't be as easy to convince the public to resist.

Scott Waterhouse: explain the increased profits, Mike?

Bill: Alex, the public is already buying GE foods...

Bill: and living somewhat GE lives...

Alex Jack:The public is buying but is not aware. If labelled, the market for GA foods would dry up, as they have for irradiated foods.

Michael B: this technology is controlled by US Corporations Scott

Scott Waterhouse: they are not labelling irradiated foods

Stephanie: Joke on me, Ed ordered me a whopper the other day with out thinking and paid for it. I asked do you have anything wihtout meat? They said, we can give you a veggie burger. I was delighted, fine I said,. Joke on me. A veggie whopper, is a whopper bun with mustard , lettuce tomatoe and onion (all raw of course)

Bill: sugar, pesticides, and all that crap never dried up...

Alex Jack:Irradiated foods are by law labelled.

Scott Waterhouse: you are not explaining the mechanism of increased profits, Mike

Kaare: The Us public is miserably ill-informed compared to Europe about GA foods

Michael B: what do myou think their motives are....helping humanity?

Kathy: There has been a great public outcry in Britain against gm crops and yet even people I know eat pot noodles as virtually their staple diet even though they shout about gm crops. Another case of the public being kept in the dark

Bill: why is that Kaare?

Kaare: The press in the US is muzzled

Bill: it's because we in the US don't have any idea what's going on behind the scenes

Elizabeth: pot noodles?

Alex Jack:The thing to watch for is the American farmer. Will the farmers order GA seeds this fall? Big crop associations are now advising them not to.

Scott Waterhouse: let's start simple...by macro...what is the problem with so-called GE foods?

Bill: if we did, then Monsanto wouldn't be collusion with the US Govt and have gotten permission to do this stuff without public approval

Kathy: Aready meal made with gm soya and lots of other rubbish you just put boiling water on it and eat!

Alex Jack:The problem with GA foods is that they lack the natural charge of heaven and earth's force and bypassed millions of years of natural evolution.

Elizabeth: thanks Kathy

Bill: good question Scott...that's my point

Stephanie: Kept in the dark, or too lazy to read lables. I don't know what pot noodles are, but they must have a label?? nO?

Alex Jack:Also by combining material from different plants, we cross the integrity of the species barrier.

Scott Waterhouse: That is hypothetical, Alex...it depends what is the source of the engineering

Stephanie: Of Course, Alex. And we can't synthesize that!

Scott Waterhouse: site a technique you disapprove of

Bill: yea, Alex, but that's been going for a long time...

Michael B: its arrogant to assume man can improve what took Mother Nature millions of years Scott

Kathy: They have a label but until recently labeling wasn't mandatory

Alex Jack:It's been going on through crossbreeding and outcropping, not through intervention into genetic material directly.

Scott Waterhouse: all vegetables have been "improved' by selective breeding

Kaare: So that means they are naturally going to expire through weakness -without massive artificial respiration, that is?

Bill: I think the bigger issue is what is going to happen when it is in effect and in effect for some time

Bill: let's take it out farther

Annie: and, what are the long range effects?

Kaare: With the empasis on the word "improve"

Scott Waterhouse: what you are suggesting is that it "might" be bad

Kathy: Do we know of any adverse effects to humans eating gm foods?

Michael B: selective breeding is much different Scott..they've now turned our world into a scientific laboratory

Elizabeth: so how would you explain what is wrong with GE foods to non-Macros?

Bill: suppose we wind up with this as something everyday and accepted...how will it show up?

Stephanie: Yes, Kathy, and is it true thay're trying to ban labels as ...

Scott Waterhouse: it is not necessarily "much" different

Annie: Hello Bruce

Alex Jack:We don't know what the long-term effects are and hence the need for a moratorium. The British Medical Association and many other groups have called for one.

Bruce: Hi Annie.

Elizabeth: hi Bruce

Stephanie: Scott, do we want to wait 10 to 50 years for those studies to be completed when our good sense tell us , thery're probably not the best?

Bruce: Hi, El.

Alex Jack:From a macrobiotic view, the main effects are reproductive, including infertility, and allergenic, including lung disorders.

Bill: Alex, it's already in the cooker...I think it's past the point of no return...so, if that's the case, what can we do

Kathy: Yes I did read of politicians trying to push through a 5 year moratoriam in uk

Bill: Alex, then we can balance it...no?

Stephanie: Hi Bruce

Scott Waterhouse: Well....the simple solution is proper labelling, and to let the "market" operate

Alex Jack:It's like Global Warming. It's already happening, but we still can mitigate its long term effects.

Bill: If we understand macrobiotics and yin and yang, etc

Bruce: Hi, Stephanie.

Michael B: the problem, Scott , is that free market GE foods, know no boundaries

Alex Jack:Yes, and get countries and municipalities to limit GA use.

Bill: That's where it needs to go as far as I'm concerned.

Scott Waterhouse: Some say the EEU is just trying to skirt WTO rules to embargoe US produce

Alex Jack:Maine for example has banned Bt corn.

Bill: How are they going to police that Alex?

Scott Waterhouse: Are we against Bacillus Thyringensis

Alex Jack:Out your way, Bill, Berkeley schools are planning to go organic and not use GA.

Kathy: Hi Bruce

Alex Jack:I'm not sure how it is enforced in Maine.

Bruce: Hi, Kathy, Gary.

Michael B: how bout those bags of Organic Corn chips...found to contain GE corn?

Bill: I still say let's look at the order of the universe..

Alex Jack:Bt has significant problems. Up to 70 percent of farm workers develop allergies using it-for conventional and organic farming.

Bill: UC Berkeley is growing GE corn on street corner lots for experimentation

Scott Waterhouse: what is Bt

Michael B: it's a sign of the times...we're slipping deeper

Bill: what is this saying about the condition of humanity Alex?

Kaare: Of course, there are also the eco-warriors who are going in for destroying GA researchh crops - happened a couple of times here in Berekely

WhiteWolffSpirit: Alex, what would be your recommendations for eating and protecting oneself?

Alex Jack:Humanity is truly at the crossroads. Either it will learn to respect and live with nature or create an artificial nature.

Bill: look at the modern world...it seems likely that this trend will continue...

Bill: for some time...until extremes change

Bill: it hasn't done that so far and we have a long way to go in understanding even our past...

Kaare: My feeling is that most of humanity will continue to degenrate and expire and the people who do seek to establish a living relationship

Alex Jack:I recommend eating organically as much as possible and being mindful when you eat out.

Annie: people don't want to change

Stephanie: Yes, but this year many of my friends are asking me about healthy eating, who never did before, because I didn't eat healthily last year, I think one of our duties is to stay kosher, educate ourselves, and share what we know

Michael B: I can't imagine how it can be stopped now...given the figures Alex gave in his book

Bill: humanity at the crossroads is too much of a cliche...when hasn't humanity been at the crossroads?

Kathy: I'd like to know where is the safest place to live!!

Bill: sounds like macrobiotics Alex..

Kaare: with Nature will thrive - Darwin's "natural selection" in operation

Elizabeth: well next year the Nine year cycle changes and MB will be in East...

Bill: what's that mean Elizabeth

Stephanie: Yes, Kaare: not very many people jumped on the Arc either, I think you're right.

Stephanie: ... but you know how long

Elizabeth: it means that MB has the chance to become more recognized

Bill: I think it is another form of trying to control the masses...

Kaare: However, this "natural selection" is a conscious or unconscious choice

Elizabeth: and into the fore front

Stephanie: ..."natural selection takes"

Bill: by who Elizabeth?

Alex Jack:Macrobiotics moves into the east next year. That means 18 years of progress.

Scott Waterhouse: Well, this is a great issue to use to try to point up to the general public the potential dangers of "unnatural" things....but it is only a small part of the equation

Bill: lets not confuse natural selection with science..

Elizabeth: by the Nine year cycle of Ki...

Bill: or the scientific approach, modern approach

Kaare: Macrobiotics will nver be recognized - it is too threatening to the "powers that be"

Scott Waterhouse: To date, natural selection is science

Scott Waterhouse: it does bring up politics...no doubt

Bill: science defined as what Scott

Michael B: it threatens the entire US food, medical and scientific industries

Scott Waterhouse: Alex...have you ever read HG Wells' "The Open Conspiracy"?

Bill: when was it last in the east Alex

Alex Jack:Macrobiotic influence is definitely growing and will more directly influence society in the next two decades.

Scott Waterhouse: Science as the deductions from empirical data Bill: and where is this influence coming from Alex?

Elizabeth: when does the 81 year cycle change, Alex?

Alex Jack:Macrobiotics was in the east 72 years ago, when George Ohsawa first went to Paris.

Bill: why does it move around Alex and what does it mean

Alex Jack:The 81 year cycle last changed in 1955 and goes to 2036.

Scott Waterhouse: It is a fact that UN type agencies work on formulating a "world diet"

Elizabeth: thanks

Alex Jack:The 81 year cycle governs an age (several generations). This one is governed by #9 Fire.

Bill: where do these cycles come from...the 9*Ki?

Annie: As part of this conspiracy to control, Scott?

Alex Jack:This is part of Nine Star Ki.

Elizabeth: ok and then in 2036, will 1 or 8 be in the center?

Michael B: but w/ the wrong motivation Scott...the US Navy has also adopted a "warrior diet"

Scott Waterhouse: Annie...it could be used for good or ill

Bill: so how is the nine star ki substantiated...

Scott Waterhouse: You are a pessimist, Mike

Kathy: Which book best explains the 9* ki I know nothing at all about it?

Alex Jack:8 will be in the center in 2036. 9 governs entertainment and communications. 8 governs change andormation.

Elizabeth: makes sense 9=technology (fire)....

Bill: go to jonsandifer.com Kathy...it's a pretty good explanation

Michael B:

---not accused of that too often Scott

Kathy: Thanks Bill

Stephanie: Hi Tony

Kaare: The political problem is that disease is a major producer of revenues - 1.2 trillion a year (1996 numbers)

Bill: Kaare, what do you think about 9*Ki

Elizabeth: Kathy, I would recomend _

Tony: hi S

Bill: the real problem is disease,is it not?

Elizabeth: The Ki_ my Mr. Yoshikawa

Alex Jack: If we can get through 2036 without destroying outselves through fire-nuclear, technology, microwave, genetic manipulation-humanity will recreate society.

Kaare: Oh, I am with Herman on 9 Star Ki - "I think, maybe superstition"

Annie: So, Scott, what is your take on whether it's being used for good or evil?

Bill: that's a little early Alex...

Kathy: Thanks Elizabeth

Annie: the UN, that is?

Michael B: its hard to tell for sure Kaare, no?

Elizabeth: your welcome

Bill: so if it's superstition, what is it doing here as an explanation for life...

Annie: Hi Tony, Lauren

Alex Jack:Nine Star Ki is no more supersititious than yin and yang, on which it is based.

Tony: hi L

Stephanie: What is so bad about Microwave, my husband is always arguing that it is harmless.... give me some amunition here -please..

Elizabeth: it isn't superstition...

Elizabeth: right...Ki

Bruce: Tony, sprachen zie d

Kaare: Every body has their little idiosyncracies, Bill, no big deal

Alex Jack:Microwave creates chaotic energy and vibration. Also precancerous changes in the blood.

Annie: Microwave, Stephanie, totally destroys the food

Bill: is yin and yang superstitious...can't be...based is based on human interpretation, no?

Kaare: Stephanie, go to my website _Signs of The Times page

Elizabeth: microwaves create positive ionization

Elizabeth: the opposite of what gas cooking creates (negative ionization)

Bill: stephanie, it changes the structure of the food...implodes it...no chi, no life force

Bruce: I wonder if Jesus walking on water is based on superstition?

Scott Waterhouse: It doesn't "totally destroy"....a starving person would recover if fed microwaved

Kaare: Basically a study done by some macro folk in Switzerland showed it damages hemoglobin

Scott Waterhouse: It is not "ideal"

Annie: far from

Bill: yea Scott, but is that the food doing it or the body doing it?

Scott Waterhouse: No...in fact it is not far from

Stephanie: Thanks, gang, I'm loaded for bear, and Ed. not

Scott Waterhouse: I said, it is less than ideal

Michael B: behond that...it's common sense that preparing natural food w/ high tech devices is not a good idea (R we robotic?)

Stephanie: I mean... now\

Lauren: The whole idea of being in such a rush to prepare one's food, and need to use microwave, is counter-intelligence.

Alex Jack:It is interesting that microwave, like genetic engineering, is almost an untested experiment. Very few studies have been on the effects to health and the environment.

Annie: the body uses what it can from the food and how much can it use from microwave food?

Scott Waterhouse: yep

Bill: Alex, but in terms of yin and yang it's obvious what microwave is and does

Scott Waterhouse: Enough to sustain life rather wqellR

Stephanie: YESS, Laurne\

Bill: why do we need so many studies...think about it

Bill: yea Scott but what is it doing to life...

Scott Waterhouse: Many people live just fine on MW food....it is a very subtle distinction, albeit very importAnt

Annie: many of these studies just confuse

Bill: just fine is relative

Alex Jack:Energetically, it may be obvious to us but to most people not.

Scott Waterhouse: it is causing anxiety, Bill

Bill: right

Kaare: Well, you know the joke about the need for studies - "give me the money!"

Bill: and take it from there...anxiety fear, and on down the line...

Stephanie: That's a good point Annie, I never got satisfies , and always wanted more when I was microwaving

Lauren: or, Kaare, "SHOW me the money."

Annie: I think that people who are sensitive to foods and can feel a difference can certainly feel the difference withMW

Bruce: Can mb afford studies?

Scott Waterhouse: Notice how we rationalize the use of gas jets over wood fi5re....there are implications to that too....albeit subtle

Kathy: At least microwaves can be taken off the market gm crops can't

Bill: or Lauren, follow the money

Kaare: Right - How many research scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

Elizabeth: it is very interesting because I didn't grow up with microwaved food but my best friend did. We were eating basicaly the same stuff but she got her period much earlier than I did and started developing earlier too...

Scott Waterhouse: As well as high speed transit....very unnatural

Michael B: very subtle Scott...not really what we're concerned with here

Annie: People who are knowledgeable can make the choice whether or not to buy a MW

Bill: also periods start earlier from eating junk foods and colas...

Stephanie: That would be cross purposes, wouldn't it/ Reductionist, scientific, macrobiot studies.... ta dummm!

Lauren: Scott, help me out here, and you know I don't MW, but macrobiotically speaking, if one HAD to, couldn't they balance that extreme with another?

Scott Waterhouse: I know, Mike....because we rationalize

Kaare: Our results were inconclusive and we need to do more research!

Scott Waterhouse: Uh....theoretically yes...practically no

Bill: it's not good to balance at the extremes...that's the problem today...

Lauren: Bill-been there, done that, I'm over it.

Stephanie: Unfortunately, I think it's more "let those who have ears to hear" or sensitivities to discern....heed

Michael B: it's not rationalization...it's distinction

Elizabeth: yeah but i was eating junk food too, but I got my period at 13, she got hers at 9

Scott Waterhouse: So Alex....what is the best organization to Lobby against GA food?

Stephanie: Amen to that , Bill

Bill: you must have been eating differently or your condition was different...

Lauren: Gee, Elizabeth, don't tell that to my 13-year-old, it'll be the last straw in the deterioration of her body.

Alex Jack:You are your own best lobbyist.

Bill: Natural Law Party or Mothers for natural law...

Elizabeth: the only difference that I can think of was the microwave...

Elizabeth: lol Lauren

Bill: but Alex is right, it's up to the individual..as is most everything

Kathy: Do you mean power of example Alex?

Michael B: Science has many powerful lobbyists...nature---: not any

Bill: just like doing macrobiotics influences the world...

Annie: I saw a lot of young girls in school when I was teaching who got their periods at 8 or 9--

Kaare: Why would you lobby to a criminal organization that makes the Mafia look like rank amateurs LOL

Elizabeth: really Annie?

Annie: from eating chicken

Annie: hormones added

Elizabeth: hmmmm makes sense

Bill: can't worry about that Michael...it's a waste of time in the long run...granted, the information is needed

Annie: depended upon their ethnicity

Bill: good point Annie

Annie: also dairy products

Annie: a lot of the Puerto Rican kids, especially

Michael B: I'm not suggesting it...I think it's futile to lobby them...

Kim: My little sister developed in all physical ways before I did - she likes meat and dairy and I didn't even then.

Bill: Alex,where do you think macrobiotics as we know it today is headed...

Lauren: Re: puberty and all things, genetic constitution does play it's part.

Kathy: My daughter Jayne is 15 and has only just started, she has never liked meat and was allergic to dairy

Michael B: I've noticed accelerated development among those children who regularly eat meat/dairy

Annie: I also noticed that a lot depended upon the foods they were brought up with at home--because of their culture, how long they were in this country and how much the parents were still feeding them their native diets : I just noticed that Alex does not seem to be on the chat right now

Bill: yea Lauren, but it's not genetic but what has been going on for generations within families

Kim: Right, genetic differences are important, but my sis and I probably aren't too terribly different (same parents after all.

Kathy: She still likes to play with her toy animals!!

Scott Waterhouse: Since Alex is out, did anyone read any of the Wells book I posted?

Lauren: Bill-that makes sense, my ancestors were strictly kosher, no tmb but certainly a controlled or ordered way of eating.

Kaare: Fine, play is good

Bill: yes scott...

Annie: my niece is now 15 and as of about 6 months ago still hadn't had a period and I told my sister-in-law not to worry about it

Bill: why not Annie...

Kathy: Yes Kaare the youngsters want to grow up to quick

Annie: because it's better that estrogen begins later

Bill: I think it's interesting...I'm wondering what he was doing in the Fabian Society and his relationship to theosophy

Scott Waterhouse: Kaare...did you know that Keynes and Bessant were Fabians

Michael B: we'd all do better to honor that child within

Kaare: Yes, Scott, I have read the first three chapters so far -he was hopelessly off-base about modern medicine

Scott Waterhouse: He was Fabian because he was an English socialistI

Kaare: Yes I did

Scott Waterhouse: How so, Kaare?

Bill: and was that a requirement of the times Scott?

Scott Waterhouse: it was a choice, Bill

Lauren: Kathy-my 13 year old is desperate to "get it"...her diet is a disaster....broken marriage, her Dad's an arrogant eater...and she's not even close to puberty from what i can tell.

Bill: he seems like he's looking for an answer and he's doing it through observation

Annie: she's better off

Annie: in Japan, from what I understand, girls used to start at 17

Kaare: Weel he said it would cure all thsi stuff like colds and flu and so forth - he had no idea of the coming plagues of degenerative disease either

Bill: yea, but Japan is much more yang environment...

Lauren: i agree. Annie

Annie: runs less estrogen through the body

Michael B: may be a good sign Lauren

Bill: what is the cross culture average for puberty...

Lauren: I'm hoping, Michael.

Annie: not sure, Bill

Scott Waterhouse: Well...that remains to be seen, Kaare....it is a red latter fact that nutrition and hygiene have made the world's population explode

Kathy: Do you think young girls want to grow up quicker these days Lauren or have I just got a short memory

Michael B: she's going against the current...dangerous trend

Annie: there must be some statistical chart for differenct countries

Bill: so it seems like it's correlated to location, diet, emotions, stress, etc...

Lauren: Bill-13 is actually average, in general, it varies greatly by race.

Annie: Young girls absolutely want to grow up sooner, Kaare

Annie: Just go into the public schools

Kathy: Media pressure maybe?

Bill: it's the media bs and the rest of it....

Scott Waterhouse: Annie...it is because they are "fed" adult images too....not just "food"

Bill: and the lack of proper education

Annie: you'll see them in 4th and 5 th grade with make up and clothes that are too sophisticated

Annie: absolutely, Scott

Kaare: Yes, extreme yin nutrition + the "emancipation " from the native agrarian cycle - however...

Kathy: Shops selling tiny sized 'grown up clothes'

Bill: why is that Annie...where are they getting this from

Annie: from the media

Annie: society in general

Annie: poor roll models

Lauren: Kathy, if I want to be really honest, I remember well being in a rush, and freaked because I was late. It does look like they're on a faster track, they're certainly more sophisticated, but I think it's a minor incremental hastening.

Bill: a messed up society in general

Annie: yes it is

Kathy: Yes your probably right Lauren

Bill: Lauren, it is a sign of the times...these things need to be looked at so we can see what we're doing to ourselves per se

Bruce: Microwave Celtic Sea Salt, Lauren! :-)

Kathy: It really does seem inevitable Bill

Bill: a reflection of who we are overall

Bill: remember the order of the universe is what we're seeing

Bill: and it doesn't take sides...

Bill: Scott, are you going to make to the rescheduled PMC oct 14-17

Kathy: Did it not all start with the 'permissive society' in the 60s

Kaare: when the rest of the world "catches" up with the LDCs, the poulation of the LDC's will be declining and then the rest of the world will

Lauren: Well, Bill, I think that's exactly right. Instead of bemoaning the state of the world, I tend to just bring the level of communication a notch higher with my kids. If they're going to get this influx of information, the best I can do is help them too disseminate it with their own language.

Scott Waterhouse: If Shaw was a vegan, and Wells and Bessant and Keynes were Fabians, and if Keynes was the architect of the IMF....perhaps the powers that be are not what some might think?

Kaare: "catch up" with that too - over the next several decades the average life span will start to decline

Scott Waterhouse: Shaw being a founding Fabian

Lauren: Sweetheart, we know they're not what we think....the question is, what are they?

Kathy: What is a fabian?

Bill: Scott, that may mean that you can go so far with some things but not get to where you should...

Scott Waterhouse: a school of English socialism

WhiteWolffSpirit: Has anyone noticed if they have influenced their friends and family by following a MB lifestyle?

Kaare: Hey, the "powers that be" does not include the President of The US - he is just a puppet

Scott Waterhouse: see an encyclopaedia

Kaare: The bankers

Bill: the people in power are going to utilize all the things they can to stay on top...but they can't avoid disease...

WhiteWolffSpirit: Are they eating more healthy? Asking more questions?

Stephanie: It's too soon to say anything else...

Scott Waterhouse: You mean the guys who go to Deepak Chopra seminars?

Kaare: No, No, LOL

Annie: those who have the $$-have the power

Scott Waterhouse: And doing yoga during lunch?

Bill: because if they did arrive at that point of dealing with disease and understood it, they wouldn't be where they are..

Tony: follow the money

Scott Waterhouse: Why, Bill?

Kathy: I keep giving my books away and printing info fron the internet in response to quetions from friends and neibours whitewolf

Kaare: No, the House of Rothschild and their spawn

Kim: People around me are gaining more of an understanding of macrobiotics, which is an improvement.

Stephanie: Kaare, they are only the apparant powers of This Modern Materialistic world. In my book, they're not the only powers at work here.

Alex: I've been offline for about 15 minutes. Probably a stray microwave, but am now back.

Scott Waterhouse: What motivates "them," Kaare?

Tony: power

Bill: because it would mean they would have to extract themselves from that part of their existence

Kaare: True, Stephanie

Kathy: Welcome back Alex

Annie: greed and $$

Lauren: Scott's right about that, I used to be married to a "banker"...they go on basti retreat weekends and think they have a spiritual life. The key word is arrogance, and like Bill said, that arrogance will not ultimately save them from disease.

Bill: and to deal with disease would have to have a common respect for humanity

Kaare: But I doubt people wnat to start talikng about the Opposing spiritual powers here

Stephanie: What motivates them is power over others,,, since it is a truth too painful to accept that they are out of control of themselves...

Scott Waterhouse: However, some of them fashion themselves the architects of a New Civiliuzation

Bill: why is that Kaare...

Kim: Hey Scott - don't diss doing yoga during lunch - doesn't take a rich person to enjoy that!

Annie: they want control, Stephanie

Lauren: Go for it, Kaare.

Scott Waterhouse: I didn't diis it....just pointed it oiut

Kaare: Hey, your not asking the right GuyLOL

Lauren: I never do.

Bill: there is always going to be the new civilization just over the horizon...it's a way of perpetuating the fallacy

Stephanie: Right, Kim!

Scott Waterhouse: Alex......tell us what motivates the "powers that