Transcript 3-19-2006

[Sun Mar 19 10:58:27 PST 2006]

klara joined.

[Sun Mar 19 11:01:12 PST 2006]

LA joined.

[Sun Mar 19 11:01:33 PST 2006] klara

hey, I'm so glad someone else came!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:02:06 PST 2006]

jayneau joined.

[Sun Mar 19 11:02:17 PST 2006] klara

and more!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:03:34 PST 2006] klara

have either of you been on a chat before??

[Sun Mar 19 11:03:56 PST 2006] jayneau

No, this is the first chat of any kind I've ever joined!

[Sun Mar 19 11:04:40 PST 2006] klara

so to whom do I have the pleasure of chatting with?

[Sun Mar 19 11:05:21 PST 2006] jayneau

This is Jayne, from New Jersey USA. I recognize your name from the different macro mailing lists.

[Sun Mar 19 11:05:35 PST 2006] LA

Klara, did you see my Q and responses? It's LouAnn here.

[Sun Mar 19 11:05:35 PST 2006] klara

I"m honored!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:05:52 PST 2006] klara

I thought it was!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:06:15 PST 2006] klara

ok, I must have said I have no memory - which questions are we talking about???

[Sun Mar 19 11:06:55 PST 2006] LA

never mind, I just figured out where to type. It's my first chat!

[Sun Mar 19 11:07:41 PST 2006] LA

Thanks for the reminder, I just logged in about 30 min. ago and saw your reminder on macrosy7

[Sun Mar 19 11:07:47 PST 2006] klara

actually, if we have a moderator, a guest speaker, the place to type is where it says Ask - that makes it easier for the moderator, but for now, just write where it says Send, and then push enter

[Sun Mar 19 11:08:24 PST 2006] klara

That wasn't so good, that I wrote it rather close to the chat time - oh well, a last minute person!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:08:48 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, which sites are you on?

[Sun Mar 19 11:09:31 PST 2006] jayneau

I'm on the macrosy7 and macro123 mailing lists.

[Sun Mar 19 11:09:32 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, did you know Elaine Nussbaum?

[Sun Mar 19 11:10:09 PST 2006] klara

confusing, no? having both those lists - I always forget which list said which thing

[Sun Mar 19 11:10:40 PST 2006] jayneau

No, I've heard of Elaine, of course, but never met her. I read her book, and heard something a few months ago that she had passed away in her sleep.

[Sun Mar 19 11:10:53 PST 2006] klara

Lou Ann, which questions were you referring to?

[Sun Mar 19 11:11:38 PST 2006] LA

Klara, I have submitted about four Qs now in the "ask" place, and I don't think you are seeing them, are you?

[Sun Mar 19 11:11:41 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, a pity - she was a most amazing person - I only got to talk to her over the phone, but so much kindness came over the line

[Sun Mar 19 11:12:17 PST 2006]

Who_ joined.

[Sun Mar 19 11:12:32 PST 2006] klara

I'm not using the moderator board, so no, I don't see them. I never learned how to be a moderator - can you retype them on send?

[Sun Mar 19 11:12:56 PST 2006] klara

Hi Who_ - please, introduce yourself??

[Sun Mar 19 11:13:43 PST 2006] Who_

I'm Who! Who are you?

[Sun Mar 19 11:13:50 PST 2006] klara

Bruce???????

[Sun Mar 19 11:14:21 PST 2006] Who_

Is there a Bruce, here?

[Sun Mar 19 11:14:21 PST 2006] klara

OK, you can play to your hearts content.

[Sun Mar 19 11:14:37 PST 2006] LA

Oh, ok, so you mean I should only use the "ask" box if there is a moderator?

[Sun Mar 19 11:14:41 PST 2006] klara

Isn't Whooooo the wise old owl?

[Sun Mar 19 11:15:09 PST 2006] klara

LouAnn, wow, you got something that so many never figured out. Yes, when there is a moderator

[Sun Mar 19 11:15:50 PST 2006] LA

ok, thanks, I guess I'm set! First timer learning curve. :-)

[Sun Mar 19 11:15:58 PST 2006] klara

The moderator has a board and can choose which questions he/she answers so the chat can go more smoothly - we still need lots of practice, tho

[Sun Mar 19 11:16:57 PST 2006] klara

so Lou Ann, what are your great questions!!!!????

[Sun Mar 19 11:17:23 PST 2006] klara

How's it going with roommate?

[Sun Mar 19 11:17:51 PST 2006] LA

oh, cool, I'm sorry I have missed the past chats. Klara, the only Q's I submitted today were just "is this where I am supposed to type?" and "Did you get this one?" just testing to see if I was behaving properly!

[Sun Mar 19 11:18:27 PST 2006] klara

ok, no questions - you're funny - behaving properly???? It's a just one big fun learning game

[Sun Mar 19 11:18:52 PST 2006] klara

and I've been lucky as have been in on it from the beginning and Gary was very patient in teaching it

[Sun Mar 19 11:19:34 PST 2006] klara

so I'll start with my big love - gardening - I just went through a zillion seeds and realize I'll never really plant them all - yet would so love to

[Sun Mar 19 11:20:01 PST 2006] klara

any of you have experience with gardening??? I'm also learning there

[Sun Mar 19 11:21:18 PST 2006] klara

Are there technical difficulties or no one has anything in particular to talk about???

[Sun Mar 19 11:21:22 PST 2006] jayneau

Klara, I'm doing the same thing now. I have lots of packets of seeds, but a garden that's only 10 feet by 25 feet. Sounds like a lot of space, but I have about 15 different things I want to plant! Now's the time to get the root vegetables in outside; also time to plant seeds indoors for things li

[Sun Mar 19 11:21:33 PST 2006] klara

lou Ann, earlier were you referring to questions you had on the sites?

[Sun Mar 19 11:21:41 PST 2006] LA

I tried very hard to raise just a few little veggies on a very small plot in my suburban back yard the first two yrs. I had this house. The soil here is very poor, sandy, I don't want to use all the chemicals required to get anything to grow. But really want to learn to raise more.

[Sun Mar 19 11:22:50 PST 2006] jayneau

Last year I had a disaster with the daikon. Planted a couple of rows, they grew about 18 inches high, then bolted to seed in a month, with no edible roots! I think I waited too long to plant them.

[Sun Mar 19 11:23:28 PST 2006] klara

The farmer I know here who's growing amazing things, just put loads and loads of peat moss, and then planted into the peat moss -

[Sun Mar 19 11:23:44 PST 2006] klara

ah, that's the biggest challenge - the timing of it all

[Sun Mar 19 11:23:53 PST 2006] LA

All my neighbors are heavily into Chemlawn and those services to keep green lawns. One neighbor has xeriscape, but the neighbors think it's a little wierd.

[Sun Mar 19 11:23:58 PST 2006] klara

I had great daikon seeds!!!1 no daikons

[Sun Mar 19 11:24:28 PST 2006] klara

what is xeriscape?

[Sun Mar 19 11:25:04 PST 2006] jayneau

Lou Ann, I was going to suggest the same thing Klara just suggested -- peat moss and organic compost. That's what I used in my garden. Really lousy soil -- clay about 10 inches down. The peat moss & compost helped a lot.

[Sun Mar 19 11:25:41 PST 2006] LA

don't know if I spelled correctly, but landscaping using only native plants that require very little water. I live in hot, dry Texas. The grass is buffalo grass, needs little water, but looks pretty soft and lush, I think.

[Sun Mar 19 11:26:32 PST 2006] klara

Also there's an amazing system of no digging - a japanese guy, Fuko something or other - uses a ball of good earth, with seed inside, and that's what's "planted"

[Sun Mar 19 11:27:11 PST 2006] klara

I hate using energy into the garden for anything I can't eat or use in some way - somehow Buffalo grass doesn't sound appealing

[Sun Mar 19 11:27:53 PST 2006] klara

have you heard of permaculture?

[Sun Mar 19 11:28:05 PST 2006] jayneau

I have a neighbor whose gardening motto seems to be "better living through chemistry!" He's heavily into fertilizers & pesticides. Grew some mutant green beans last year that were as thick as my thumb. I worry that those chemicals drift over into my vegetable garden.

[Sun Mar 19 11:28:15 PST 2006] LA

Oh, no you sure can't eat buffalo grass! But it makes a pretty soft-looking lawn while most everyone around has st. augusting grass, requiring lots of water, fertilizer, etc.

[Sun Mar 19 11:29:08 PST 2006] klara

uses principles to use what you have - something like mb in using what's local. I also would worry about neighbor's chemicals - but permaculture says no problems, only solutions.

[Sun Mar 19 11:29:18 PST 2006] klara

wonder how you would solve chemicals?

[Sun Mar 19 11:29:41 PST 2006] LA

Yes, I have friends who have done small gardens in their yards, but the neighbor sprays poisons just next door. In the suburbs they are just going to use the chemicals, no getting around that.

[Sun Mar 19 11:30:26 PST 2006] LA

I never heard of permaculture. I do raise some herbs and occasionally a bell pepper or something in large planters. that works pretty well in the 'burbs

[Sun Mar 19 11:30:26 PST 2006] klara

maybe something that grows very very easily and fast as a border between you and neighbor

[Sun Mar 19 11:31:46 PST 2006] LA

bruce are you here? Hello!

[Sun Mar 19 11:31:47 PST 2006] klara

I figure if I'm going to put energy into it, I want it something special that I can't buy here, so right now I have some amazing kale growing

[Sun Mar 19 11:32:23 PST 2006] LA

klara what's your soil like there?

[Sun Mar 19 11:32:25 PST 2006] jayneau

I've resigned myself that I can't control his actions, only my own. So I keep my garden as organic & natural as I can, and hope his chemicals are not affecting my garden too much.

[Sun Mar 19 11:33:09 PST 2006] Who_

Bruce, are you there? hello!

[Sun Mar 19 11:33:26 PST 2006] jayneau

Bruce, just jump right in!

[Sun Mar 19 11:34:27 PST 2006] klara

can't control neighbors, can't control family, can't control roommates, and can't control Who????

[Sun Mar 19 11:34:37 PST 2006] Who_

Yes, Bruce, just jump right in!

[Sun Mar 19 11:34:45 PST 2006] LA

Jayne, are you in suburbs, or countryside?

[Sun Mar 19 11:35:48 PST 2006] jayneau

I'm in the suburban sprawl, in a development of identical 50 year old houses.

[Sun Mar 19 11:36:22 PST 2006] klara

about my soil, can't really say - areas where I work it alot, and areas where it's full of great weed!!!! and nice hard clay!!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:36:59 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, you know the children's book, about the guy who pained his house purple, so it would look different from all the other houses?? My kids' and mine favorite book.

[Sun Mar 19 11:37:07 PST 2006] klara

not pained, painted

[Sun Mar 19 11:37:21 PST 2006] jayneau

I have a nice size back yard, though. But the roots from a neighbor's gigantic tree keep me from having a larger, more productive garden.

[Sun Mar 19 11:37:39 PST 2006] klara

then all the neighbors also pained their houses!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:38:05 PST 2006] klara

how's your relationship with this rooted neighbor?

[Sun Mar 19 11:38:23 PST 2006] LA

50 yr old? I can just imagine the upkeep, although homes that age generally have been updated/renovated. I am having the 20-yr old house problems right now. It's a handful for me, things just now really needing replacing, fixing, etc.

[Sun Mar 19 11:38:32 PST 2006] klara

painted!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:39:23 PST 2006] jayneau

Don't need the purple house -- I'm already the oddball in the neighborhood. Everyone has the perfectly manicured, fertilized, pesticided lawn, and mine is full of dandelions, crabgrass & weeds. But I have a lot of wild rabbits that come and eat the dandelions & crabgrass, and I absolutely refuse t

[Sun Mar 19 11:40:12 PST 2006] LA

and I have my hands full just keeing up with the dishes generated from my cooking and from the meat-loving housemate.

[Sun Mar 19 11:40:49 PST 2006] jayneau

The relationship with the big tree neighbor is very good and they've been saying for the last 10 years that they need to cut down the tree. But they're elderly, the husband is sickly, and they're not moving on the tree issue. And I don't want to push it. They're got a lot to deal with right now.

[Sun Mar 19 11:41:07 PST 2006] klara

When I was in the States, there was a show on PBS,Square Foot Gardening, basically intensive gardening, less work, and more produce

[Sun Mar 19 11:41:25 PST 2006] LA

Do you want them to cut down the tree, really? It's sad to see the big old trees go.

[Sun Mar 19 11:41:52 PST 2006] jayneau

Yes, I'm dealing with the 50 year old house issues a lot lately. Had to replace a basement wall that had shifted, and lots more work to do to bring the house up to date.

[Sun Mar 19 11:42:38 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, I don't agree with Lou Ann, lately I realize how wonderful nature can be - and it is OK to cut - what if you went ahead and did all the preliminary work, found someone who can cut, etc, and just tell them how much it would cost???

[Sun Mar 19 11:42:41 PST 2006] jayneau

Yes, unfortunately the tree does need to come down. It's not in good shape, and it's very, very large. One very strong storm or a lightning strike, and that thing will fall on someone's house.

[Sun Mar 19 11:43:28 PST 2006] LA

yes, well, I understand that.

[Sun Mar 19 11:43:47 PST 2006] klara

also the best way to get neighbor's affections is to have great abundance and share the abundance!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:44:45 PST 2006] LA

do you have fireplaces? could use for firewood?

[Sun Mar 19 11:45:23 PST 2006] jayneau

Oh, I do share! We get along very well (it's the neighbor on the other side who is the chemical king), and I always share my garden bounty with them. They're very nice people. But just slow to move on things. Maybe I'll have a talk with one of their sons about the tree.

[Sun Mar 19 11:45:26 PST 2006] klara

my neighbors have a fig tree than goes over to my side - for the most part I loved it, but had a gardener that insisted we cut, as it was blocking the sun if I wanted to grow anything. he was right, and anyway, every fig I ate, I knew was sinfully too yin, but oh so good

[Sun Mar 19 11:49:14 PST 2006] LA

We are having a rain/lightening/thunderstorm right now! Wonderful! We've been in a drought. But if I get disconnected, that's why. Power surges happen in thunder. Also got two very concerned kitties looking for a place to hide.

[Sun Mar 19 11:50:38 PST 2006] jayneau

Going back a few questions -- unfortunately, my 50 year old house has never been renovated, so I've had a lot of work to do: new plumbing, electric, windows, doors, roof, porches, siding, sidewalks, driveway. Next is kitchen & bathroom remodeling. Everything in those rooms is still original!

[Sun Mar 19 11:53:14 PST 2006] LA

wow, just curious, do you have to handle all this alone (as I do) or have a significant other to help? I have a housemate, but helps only with rent, no other home maintenance-type things.

[Sun Mar 19 11:54:01 PST 2006] klara

heck, Lou Ann, I'm disappointed - I thought I understood, that's what men are good for!!!1

[Sun Mar 19 11:54:40 PST 2006] LA

oh, yeah, and also helps trashing my kitchen! But Klara and Ilanit have already helped me realize that isn't something to complain about! :-)

[Sun Mar 19 11:55:04 PST 2006] klara

meat isn't trash, just another kind of energy :>)

[Sun Mar 19 11:55:07 PST 2006] jayneau

My brother lives with me and we co-own the house. We do what work we can, but most of it is turned over to professionals (especially things like electrical & plumbing!). But luckily, there's no mortgage. We inherited the house from our parents.

[Sun Mar 19 11:55:17 PST 2006] LA

you mean to pay rent?

[Sun Mar 19 11:55:55 PST 2006] klara

Jayne, you grew up in that house?

[Sun Mar 19 11:56:10 PST 2006] LA

you are right, and by trashing I mean dishes dishes dishes, which I generally get stuck with. But again, I'm trying not to complain! Not doing too good, huh?

[Sun Mar 19 11:57:05 PST 2006] klara

OK, Lou Ann, not complaining is a big challenge, I know - I'm always working on it!!1 so what are his good points, besides paying half the rent?

[Sun Mar 19 11:57:58 PST 2006] klara

funny,while it's quiet on the chat I can hear the tv downstairs, a cooking show!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 11:58:04 PST 2006] klara

the Iron Chef

[Sun Mar 19 11:58:24 PST 2006] jayneau

Yes, I grew up in the house, moved out, and moved back when my father died and mother became ill. As did my best friend, who grew up living across the street and also left and is now back as the owner of her parents' house. The circle of life. As an aside, I do most of the cooking at home (OK, 99

[Sun Mar 19 11:58:31 PST 2006] Who_

Maybe you should leave dirty dishes around and then the other person can do the complaining and then the washing!

[Sun Mar 19 11:58:51 PST 2006] LA

lots of good points, a real good guy, long-time trusted friend, and I don't have to be alone in the house at night, which I hate. Also a good cook - cooks lots of veggies and grains.

[Sun Mar 19 11:59:18 PST 2006] LA

in addition to the funky meat

[Sun Mar 19 11:59:23 PST 2006] klara

wow, I'd be thrilled to do dishes for someone who cooked good food for me

[Sun Mar 19 11:59:54 PST 2006] Who_

In israel?

[Sun Mar 19 12:00:34 PST 2006] klara

my problem is when I want to cook, while my husband has a stock, meat or chicken, going all night and I wake up to the smell - hard to get over it and get cooking with my stuff!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:01:00 PST 2006] klara

hey, I hear honey/miso from downstairs, hmmmmm

[Sun Mar 19 12:01:03 PST 2006] LA

but I mean he cooks in additon to the large amount of cooking I do. You know how much dishes are generated by mb. but again, I know that is truly not something to complain about - an abundance of wonderful healthy food in the house! So I'm just blowing off steam, and thanks for listening!

[Sun Mar 19 12:01:46 PST 2006] klara

sorry Lou Ann,I didn't let you off the hook before and won't now - if it bugs you, let's solve it, if we can

[Sun Mar 19 12:01:51 PST 2006] LA

what is honey/miso?

[Sun Mar 19 12:02:16 PST 2006] klara

I don't know - just hearing it from the tv , in snatches - want me to go down and ask?

[Sun Mar 19 12:02:56 PST 2006] LA

oh, I thought you meant you heard your honey/miso simmering downstairs or something like that - ha

[Sun Mar 19 12:04:36 PST 2006] klara

and what I meant to say, less food, less quantities, less time spent eating!!!!! or rather just eating less

[Sun Mar 19 12:04:52 PST 2006] jayneau

I agree, Klara. And for me, that also means less stuff. Less clutter, of all sorts.

[Sun Mar 19 12:04:58 PST 2006] klara

but I can't say that's for everyone - it's not at all easy - abundance feels good

[Sun Mar 19 12:05:49 PST 2006] klara

ah, clutter, that's how I started with the chat - all those seeds I've been saving, it's crazy!!!! I'm working on decluttering, on getting rid of what I don't need, but it's so hard!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:06:08 PST 2006] LA

interesting! I've been meaning to write to you via the groups anyway, Klara, about how I can relate to your wanting to get less and less. I am going through same thing, and it's not as easy as it sounds to shed "things." Is it?

[Sun Mar 19 12:07:30 PST 2006] jayneau

Very tough to shed "things." And I don't know why. Trying to shed the accumulative mindset is tough. And most of these "things" aren't really important to me!

[Sun Mar 19 12:08:21 PST 2006] Who_

Klara, if you are competing with your husband then you are living seperate lives!

[Sun Mar 19 12:08:24 PST 2006] LA

abundance for me feels good then dealing with the clutter of abundance only drags me down. clutter makes me feel very weighted down and not as mobile as I would like to be.

[Sun Mar 19 12:08:46 PST 2006] klara

My problem is I KNOW in my head I don't need so many things - it's a security thing, I'm sure, if I could feel secure in other ways - or maybe it's just something that I need to practice more and more, and it gets easier with doing!

[Sun Mar 19 12:10:47 PST 2006]

[Sun Mar 19 12:11:11 PST 2006] LA

but it's so hard to get rid of "things." Lots can be given away, but that's kinda hard too, sometimes. Do you ever get on rolls where you really try to sort through things to get rid of, then think, oh I may just need/wear/use it again for one thing or another?

[Sun Mar 19 12:11:24 PST 2006] jayneau

Living in cluttered, disorganized surroundings seems to be a reflection of my life. I feel that if I can organize and declutter my surroundings, my life will follow suit (hopefully!).

[Sun Mar 19 12:12:25 PST 2006] LA

Jayne that is exactly how I feel. I hate clutter and feel if I have it in my home, that is a metaphor for my life.

[Sun Mar 19 12:12:32 PST 2006] klara

Have you heard of flylady? She has a site, huge one, and she says you can't organize clutter, only get rid of it.

[Sun Mar 19 12:13:51 PST 2006] jayneau

Lou Ann, I do that all the time. But sometimes I just get on a roll and throw out everything I can lay my hands on, even something that I may have purchased only a week ago! But if I'm in a mindset of "Well, maybe I can use that some day," then I just stop and wait until I get in the proper heave-

[Sun Mar 19 12:13:55 PST 2006] klara

also the other group I"m on that's local, we have sentences that we say before we begin, and that's exactly one, that the area we are working on is a reflection of me - and so when we work on whatever is the problem, like focus, or order, or having a definition - then that's the same issue we work on in our lives!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:14:19 PST 2006] LA

that is certainly true for me. I want to get rid of stuff, and then ask why I keep buying new stuff? Wow, I can just listen to myself and my complaining and think how pathetic - seems all my complaining has to do with what is really the blessings of abundance.

[Sun Mar 19 12:14:42 PST 2006] klara

The biggest one is fear - I talked about that on one of the sites, forgot which - but the fear we might need it - that's huge

[Sun Mar 19 12:16:01 PST 2006] jayneau

I think I just inherited the packrat gene from my Depression-era parents. Especially my father. He'd save everything!

[Sun Mar 19 12:17:16 PST 2006] klara

The other line we say is how it is up to us, only I can do the work, I can't put the blame on anyone else. I also was raised where nothing was bought unless on sale!!!! And saving pennies, well that was the way

[Sun Mar 19 12:17:17 PST 2006] jayneau

But when I do declutter a bit, I feel so good afterwards, like I really accomplished something great!

[Sun Mar 19 12:19:01 PST 2006] klara

We do the work with a teacher which makes it a bit easier - in that the teacher can point out things - like one area I decided it was better to have nothing there (a corner in the bedroom) but when I took everything away it looked so bare - and she explained that even though it's hard, that it's better for me to get used to empty space, and after a while I will appreciate it. and I do!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:19:09 PST 2006] LA

I often go into homes of friends or relatives or just local folks here and am amazed at just how much people love "things" Huge collections of all kinds of things, some quite valuable. I can't understand why large collections of things make people feel so good to have in their homes.

[Sun Mar 19 12:19:14 PST 2006] jayneau

I know -- I mention the packrat gene in jest. I know it's all up to me, and I can't blame anyone else. It's just getting myself started on the decluttering that's hard. Once I get going, though -- look out! I'd throw the cats out if they didn't run & hide (only kidding!)!

[Sun Mar 19 12:19:51 PST 2006] LA

me, too, it really feels great to finally get rid of something that was somehow hard to get rid of, or lots of things

[Sun Mar 19 12:21:13 PST 2006] klara

there's an international freecycle - should be local groups where you live - see if you can find them - it's a nice idea - tho also what our teacher says is to have faith that whoever needs it will get it, and we don't have to worry about where our things end up - tho I'm afraid I still do!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:22:46 PST 2006] jayneau

I take lots of things to the local Salvation Army Thrift Store, and we have another organization (Red, White & Blue -- benefits Vietnam Vets) that will come and pick up big things like furniture and appliances.

[Sun Mar 19 12:23:17 PST 2006] LA

klara, thanks for that. I just never even had that thought to have faith that whoever needs it will get it. I do often say a short prayer over something I particularly liked that the person will wear/use it in good health and be happy about having it. Just a quick little prayer. maybe kinda sill

[Sun Mar 19 12:23:39 PST 2006] klara

going back to gardening - that's why I love it so - I see how easily Nature gives and it makes it easier for me to understand the concept of abundance and giving away easily (or cutting trees, or pulling out plants)

[Sun Mar 19 12:24:05 PST 2006] LA

I also send things to Salvation Army, but I don't know if I have the other organizations here - will have to check.

[Sun Mar 19 12:25:07 PST 2006] klara

Lou Ann, our teacher (sorry to quote her so much) says to say a prayer of gratefulness for having had the pleasure of the use of whatever, to pack it up respectfully, even if it's going into the trash. New concepts that I'm still struggling to grasp

[Sun Mar 19 12:25:14 PST 2006] jayneau

It sounds silly, but it just amazes me that those very tiny seeds produce such big, wonderful food! I'm just enthralled with the whole growing process. Ah, nature!

[Sun Mar 19 12:25:35 PST 2006] klara

not silly at all - super amazing!!!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:25:49 PST 2006] klara

actually, even on our level, just think how we started!!!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:27:09 PST 2006] LA

now if I could only learn to be truly grateful for a kitchen full of dirty dishes! Will take me lots of work!

[Sun Mar 19 12:28:55 PST 2006] klara

For the dishes, she says to think while you are doing the dishes - how many people it took to get those dishes to you, how fortunate to have wonderful food to feed yourself on those dishes - to observe anything, the bubbles of the soap, the pattens in the dishes, hot water if you're lucky to have it (I don't always have it)

[Sun Mar 19 12:29:16 PST 2006] jayneau

Lou Ann, I don't know if this was covered yet, but can't you just ask your roommate to clean his dishes as he uses them and that you'll do the same? Seems like a very small request and easy to accommodate. Or have you already asked him?

[Sun Mar 19 12:30:11 PST 2006] klara

for myself, my situation is different - I feel it's my role - a bit complicated to explain, but it's ok - I feel if I don't fight it but just accept it, it goes much easier

[Sun Mar 19 12:31:41 PST 2006] klara

if I'm stuggling and feeling unfair, then the fight inside me is taking up my energies and I can't just enjoy whatever is happening

[Sun Mar 19 12:32:10 PST 2006] LA

thank you, Klara, yes I do have hot water always, unless the hot water heater is broken. So that is a great thing, along with all the other things you point out.

[Sun Mar 19 12:32:20 PST 2006] klara

but Lou Ann, it's a different situation for you - I don't know if there were expectations on his part???

[Sun Mar 19 12:32:33 PST 2006] klara

or on your part?

[Sun Mar 19 12:33:01 PST 2006] klara

it's awkward when the roles aren't clear

[Sun Mar 19 12:34:03 PST 2006] LA

Jayne, actually he does dishes, too. It's just with two of us who like to cook a lot, and both so busy, it's hard to keep up with the dishes. After cooking, neither of us feels like cleaning up the entire amount of dishes just right then, so we get a backlog.

[Sun Mar 19 12:35:09 PST 2006] LA

klara, sorry to have gotten this dishes thing going when you were wanting to talk about gardening...

[Sun Mar 19 12:35:49 PST 2006] klara

it's ok!!!!! really!!!!!! It's a challenge that you need solving, tho right now I'm not sure I have any great ideas

[Sun Mar 19 12:36:00 PST 2006] jayneau

I know the feeling. I don't have a dishwasher, and it's very easy to have the dishes pile up in a hurry. Especially when cooking macro. Right now I have a sink full of dirty dishes, with the other sink full of dishes that are dry & waiting to be put away. Sigh.....

[Sun Mar 19 12:37:57 PST 2006] klara

ok, this is the hard part for me - it's kind of like decluttering, it's letting go - meaning I'm going to say good-night (even that's hard, letting go of a chat!!!) so I can try to call my teacher and do some more real decluttering - I have so so so many places that need working on.

[Sun Mar 19 12:38:20 PST 2006] LA

what about you mr. Who? How much dishes do you do in an average day? Do you have dishpan hands?

[Sun Mar 19 12:38:37 PST 2006] klara

if I think of the plant - the big one that grows easy, I'll post it.

[Sun Mar 19 12:39:01 PST 2006] jayneau

Good night, Klara. Thanks for chatting!

[Sun Mar 19 12:39:13 PST 2006] LA

Klara, Jayne and Who, thanks for making my first chat a fun experience. Next time no complaining - really!!

[Sun Mar 19 12:39:29 PST 2006] jayneau

See you all next time around!

[Sun Mar 19 12:39:48 PST 2006] LA

talk to you all later, thanks again!

[Sun Mar 19 12:40:02 PST 2006] klara

btw, I started a gardening/mb group, tho it's not very active yet - OneGrainTenThousandGrains on yahoogroups - but right now I don't even care - like decluttering posts

[Sun Mar 19 12:40:02 PST 2006] klara

Good night