"Get Real"?

[Roy Collins]

How does Ultimate Reality differ from Personal Reality?

Is Ultimate Reality and Truth one and the same?

What is Ultimate Realilty? What is Truth? Is these undefinable concepts, like time/space -- or, are they relativistic terms that change meaning with each individual?

Can one define or equate Ultimate Reality to Godhead or Oversoul?

In peace, Roy

[mistry]

Personal reality is fleeting and now...this nano-second....it evolves.....we steer our personal reality by repeating the past and dwelling on it. Can we effect change for the future by deleting the past completely? Everything that has happened is over, gone, forgiven, forgotten.....has no substance. Today, right now, there is only here and now.
Just be strong and ride the wave of energy in the universe and be moral and expect nothing.

True reality?

Not by resisting the flow of energy and "thinking", "worrying", "resenting", "regretting", etc.

True reality must replace all thoughts, all actions, all feelings.....become a stitch in the fabric of life.....don't pull and snag it, or dampen it, or burn it....just carry/support your allotted position/share in that fabric and exist.....

At least...this is how I feel today.

[mistry]

I am reminded of The Borg on Star Trek, TNG...

"You will be assimilated....resistance if futile".

We should surrender ourselves into the greater collective which has existed forever and will exist forever.

[soultraveler01]

Originally posted by Roy
How does Ultimate Reality differ from Personal Reality?

Dave: ultimate reality is of the Divine. Personal reality is the human or physical consciousness.


Is Ultimate Reality and Truth one and the same?

Dave: Yes (within my definition in the first question)



What is Ultimate Realilty? What is Truth?

Dave: Truth is looking at everything from a 360 degree viewpoint. This can be done only by transcending the constraints of the human body. It involves the Soul, a spark of God, who we really are. Not these bodies. When we leave our bodies, for example when are physical bodies are sleeping, if we can do this consciously, then maybe what I am saying would be more understandable.

Is these undefinable concepts, like time/space -- or, are they relativistic terms that change meaning with each individual?

Dave: probably individualistic within the human consciousness, but univeral within the Soul consciousness.

Can one define or equate Ultimate Reality to Godhead or Oversoul?

Dave: I'm not sure what Godhead or OverSoul are, but to me Ultimate reality is of the divine or God, that which is beyond time and spacial constraints.

Dave

In peace, Roy

[Bruce Paine]

Hi "Dave",

I seems to me that if there were a "God", an omnipotent one that created the universe and all things within it, that he'd be too busy creating the rest of the universe to worry about one little insignificant planet and all it's inhabitant's problems and worries.

And if God were concerned about us, do you really think that he'd leave the development of each person's spiritual development (that is the realization of oneness with the the creator) in the hands of other humans?

I find that unconceivable.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[soultraveler01]

Hi Bruce,

Your post seems very hostile. You even put my name in quotes for some strange reason. However, I will respond to your letter in a civil and friendly way regardless.

Originally posted by Bruce Paine
Hi "Dave",

I seems to me that if there were a "God", an omnipotent one that created the universe and all things within it, that he'd be too busy creating the rest of the universe to worry about one little insignificant planet and all it's inhabitant's problems and worries.

Dave: Maybe you are right. My personal, but private, experiences lead me to a different conclusion.


And if God were concerned about us, do you really think that he'd

Dave: God to me is not a he or she but if God does have a gender, I'm hoping the gender is female.....(Smiling)

And if God were concerned about us, do you really think that he'd
leave the development of each person's spiritual development (that is the realization of oneness with the the creator) in the hands of other humans?

Dave: I feel that each person's spiritual developement is the business and responsilbility of each individual person. I don't believe that this opportunity for each person to expand one's spiritual development and consciousness is in the hands of other humans.

I find that unconceivable.

Thank you, very much.

Dave: Your welcome "Bruce" (Smiling)

Best Regards,

Dave

Bruce Paine

[Bruce Paine]

"Dave",

You need not take it personally.

Since I don't know which Dave you are, to me, you are "Dave".

I imagine that everyone, here, knows which Bruce I am.

Roy Collins, Connih Ericksen, and Gary Miller's folks have seen me in the flesh, as well as, at least one David in the macrobiotic community, but I don't know which David or Dave I'm communicating with, here, so, until I do, you are "Dave" to me.

Also, "Dave", part of the way I percieve you communicating your beliefs, is as if they are "the truth" instead of just your beliefs, as if already, everyone who reads and is exposed to your beliefs, accepts that as "the truth", and since that is not true, in my case, I must challenge that.

Your initial reaction that I am hostile, to me is a good indication that you are now paying full attention to (and talking on the same level with) me, as I believe that it is not a good idea for anyone to both lecture (which I percieve as talking down to) me and communicate (which I percieve as talking on the same level) with me, and also, I'm not comfortable with being lectured, here.

One thing that I found out that I often did after leaving the macrobiotic community in Boston (in 1975) when I was trying to communicate macrobiotic ideas, was mimic the style of the teacher who lectured us, that is, lecture others as if I was speaking "the truth" instead of sharing that which I believed to be true, as that (in a matter of fact, I feel that has or had been the case of the main failing of sharing macrobiotic ideas in the greater community [communicating macrobiotics as "the truth" instead of one's personal perceptions and beliefs regarding {macrobiotics} it]).

So, "Dave" if you want me to be less challenging, then I suggest you fully share your beliefs as your beliefs and not as a combination of your perceptions and some dominant world or universal view that every one has and therefore must accept as "the truth".

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine



Re: "Hi Bruce,

Your post seems very hostile. You even put my name in quotes for some strange reason. However, I will respond to your letter in a civil and friendly way regardless...."

[soultraveler01]

[quote]Originally posted by Bruce Paine
[b]"Dave",

You need not take it personally.

Since I don't know which Dave you are, to me, you are "Dave".

I imagine that everyone, here, knows which Bruce I am.


Dave: I don't know you. But I'll continue to call you Bruce rather than "Bruce" because I feel the latter is disrespectful.

Also, "Dave", part of the way I percieve you communicating your beliefs, is as if they are "the truth" instead of just your beliefs, as if already, everyone who reads and is exposed to your beliefs, accepts that as "the truth", and since that is not true, in my case, I must challenge that.

Dave: I was merely expressing my beliefs based on my experiences in reply to Roy. Your beliefs are your beliefs. I was merely expressing mine nothing more.

So, "Dave" if you want me to be less challenging, then I suggest you fully share your beliefs as your beliefs and not as a combination of your perceptions and some dominant world or universal view that every one has and therefore must accept as "the truth".

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

Dave: Bruce, I really don't enjoy having a discourse with you. Perhaps you could leave me in peace? I hope so.

Best regards,

Dave

[Bruce Paine]

"Dave",

Cybermacro is a virtual public place (almost anyone can come here).

So if someone comes and expresses a view that someone else is finding disageeable then that someone else can express that.

Whether one enjoys something that is being said or not is up to the reader, not the writer, so if you don't like what I'm writing, you know your options.

And if you think I'm being disrespectful, consider the lack of respect conferred on a community by those remaining somewhat hidden.

Whether or not I enjoy a discourse with you, I find your manner of using this space, compelling.

So please continue expressing your point of view, and if I find that there is something that you write that I must respond to, I will (if I can).

If there is a "God", what do you think he, she, or it, thinks of our little disagreement?

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[soultraveler01]

[quote]Originally posted by Bruce Paine
[b]"Dave",

And if you think I'm being disrespectful, consider the lack of respect conferred on a community by those remaining somewhat hidden.

Dave: it is quite common on the internet to not reveal one's full name etc. While most people are peaceful and nice, some are not. Just to play it safer, I choose to not reveal my entire name. I have, however, revealed my full name and more in private emails to those who I chose to reveal that information. I would say that my not revealing my full name is not meant as disrespectful to the group here. I'm sure many choose to use pseudonames or on-line names here just as people often do in other chat sites and do so not to be disrespectful but just to be somewhat more anonymous for safety reasons.

Whether or not I enjoy a discourse with you, I find your manner of using this space, compelling.

Dave: I was just looking for commaraderie. That is my reason for using this space. I thought Roy's article about how he adapted his diet when he was ill was a really good discussion. I wrote the article "MY Macro" diet, because I thought that the group might find this interesting. I also thought that maybe others here have had to make similar adjustments to fit their individual constitutions and conditions too. I replied to Roy's post about 'getting real' because spiritual topics interest me.

If there is a "God", what do you think he, she, or it, thinks of our little disagreement?

Dave: This is just my opinion and my truth but not necessarily anyone else's truth:

I feel that this earth was meant not to be nirvana, but unfortunately a place where wars and disagreements are the norm not the exception. The reason for this, I believe, is so that each of us can learn to become more loving human beings. The trials and tribulations of our lives help us to focus our attention more on spiritual matters than on material matters. Changing our focus from ONLY being concerned with material well being and pleasure to a more balanced view where we focus on spiritual matters while still taking responsibility for the economic well being of ourselves and our loved ones is a good middle path. So for example, We can enjoy our material things but if they get taken away from us, we can still move on and not be crushed by this experience. Illness for example, often has the ripple effect of bringing us closer to God, in whatever belief system we choose to manifest this belief in.

So what does God think about our little disagreement? I would say that God could care a less about the disagreement itself. I would say that the disagreement (at least for me and from my point of view) was more of a test. Would I lose my cool? Would I stop loving you as Soul even though I felt put upon and a little embarrassed by your accusations and tone? In this case I was able to keep my cool and to continue to love you as Soul. I've grown up a little emotionally and spiritually so this is a good thing

I am hoping that we can discourse in a more friendly way, even if we have different points of view. Avoiding you to not have disagreeements is one possible way of going through my life and if necessary that is the road I will take. But agreeing to disagree, and giving people the space to have different viewpoints is the better way (in my opinion) provided both individuals would give such freedom to others. However, if we cannot discourse in a more friendly way, that is okay too. In that scenario I would simply just let you and leave you be and give you the exact freedom that I would want for myself.

Best,

Dave