birth control

[lysia jones]

Does anyone know of the best birth control? Of course non-hormonal. I now have an IUD which I feel is contributing to my cracked nipples which won't heal, not to mention loss of vitality. My man is considering a vasectomy but we are hesitant, just don't want to hurt him. We already have two kids- plenty! I get irritated by condoms. I have a cervical cap and have been told to use vitamin c powder as a spermicide, yet you must leave it in for 8 hours. My man is very untrusting to natural methods which is how we had our second kid. Now I know there is more to it than rythm, but he is afraid. I definatly don't want surgery on me as I have been through enough! Thanks!

[Ilanit]

caps are really good - you don't need spermicide as they say - though they are 100% effective - some people team them with non spermicidal condoms (spermidices have nasty chemicals and if things don't go as planned can contribute to birth defects).
The Billings method is great if you can track your cycle and for those who can't so well the saliva microscopes are great - lots of info online - type in natural birth control into Google search engine.

There are some innovative alternatives to the cap online from various materials and in various forms. Not sure about usage or success. Try it and let us know!

I would not reccomend IUDs - the metals and other elements can really affect you whole body.

Invasive surgeries are also very disruptive to the whole body if they are not necessary.

Oh - there is another device I saw in Europe called Persona which like the microscope keeps trakc of your fertile days through urine test strips - meant ot be very good.

The book on the Billings method is very good.

......oh and have fun testing them out!

Ilanit

[lysia jones]

Thanks, I will get this iud out asap! I will try to combine all the natural methods , temp, fluid, microscope, chart, with my cap. Do you feel a vasectomy is bad for a males overall health as it is less invasive a proceedure than say a womans? thanks, lysia

I think you should definately ask a professional naturopath or a physician about this, because clearly you and your partner do not want to have any more children, as you have said a few times in your post, so someone telling you to "have fun trying" out sketchy methods of contraception isn't very good advice at all.

[WonderlandAlli]

Is it the spermicide or the latex in condoms that irritate you? If its the spermacide, try the non-spermicidal types. If its the latex, I can't put my finger on what its made from (maybe lambskin?) but if you ask a doctor, there are alternative condoms out there that aren't latex.

[Bruce Paine]

WonderlandAlli,

Do you think that anyone is waiting around for almost three years for our replies?

Not comfortable using latex or plastic, I have always used condoms made from lambskin, like the no longer available Forex, and the currently available NATURALAMB Condoms.

I wonder what the difference is between regular latex condoms and condoms made of natural rubber latex?

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[WonderlandAlli]

Well for some reason it was showing as new, and I'm used to more alive forums than this so I didn't check.

[azulparsnip]

if one is gonna go with the most centered approach I would think that would be absteniance during fertile times. We practiced the natural method successfully for 20 years.

[Bruce Paine]

azulparsnip,

I don't know if the centered or middle of the road approach (between yes and no) to sex during fertile times is abstinence, or no!

Maybe the people that are not contributing anything else to society and might not be able to provide balanced lives to their children, should practice abstinence!

But an absolute of abstinence to anyone during fertile times?

People who would support having their children go off to fight in senseless wars probably also should not have children.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[azulparsnip]

Bruce - you are not talkin' birth control - you are talkin' freedom control.......

you are not talkin' parenthood - you are talkin' statehood

you are deciding who should live based on your judgement of the behaviour of the concieving individual.

and wars are never senseless or futile......somebody wins'em and it is either for the better or worse - I am glad Hitler did not succeed but then those old boogy ideas of which you are touting are still here.

[Bruce Paine]

azulparsnip,

How are things in the Tarheel state?

I also have family, there!

Are you coastal, piedmont, or in the mountains?


My feeling is that both Nam was and the current conflict is, futile!

So parents raising the children with the values of sacrifice for any reason for those kinds of conflicts is senseless!

Many people in the macrobiotic community, for instance could have children old enough to go fight in Iraq.

My guess is that very few if any of these people have children embroiled in that conflict!

I avoided the draft (in 1968) by standing up straight, putting me two inches over the height limit and earning me a 1-Y deferment, and had I raised children I would have taught them to avoid stupid conflicts both here and in other lands.

How about you?

By the way, though I support our troops and their staying out of harms way (and coming home as soon as it is feasible for them and for the safety of the Iraqi people), I am against the war and the reasons for making it!


Yes, I support freedom of the individual and not a totalitarian government or society telling individuals what to do!


And I also don't believe in a personal god that people must obey and be rewarded or disobey and be punished.

If any universal force exists, I don't believe that it is concerned with the actions of society or the individuals within it.

Unlike a king, president or leader who is dependent on the actions for his/her position, survival, and existence, any universal force, personified, would really not need anything from anyone as it could provide for all it's own needs or wants!

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[WonderlandAlli]

I wouldn't encourage my child to fight in a war, but I think that if I had a kid that wanted to, and who felt that for him/her it was the right decision, I wouldn't feel like I had the right to stop him/her. I had lots of friends that joined the army right after Sept 11th, when we were seniors in high school and 18. I didn't like the idea, but I didn't feel like I had the place to stop them from defending something they hold dear. I feel like I can protest the war and support my friends' decisions at the same time.

So parents raising the children with the values of sacrifice for any reason for those kinds of conflicts is senseless!

Again, friends of mine that feel the army, marines, navy, or air force was a positive things in their life wouldn't feel like they're doing wrong giving that impression to their children. The most I would be able to do is suggest to the child, if it was asked, what do YOU feel you want to do? My grandfathers were both navy men, but I don't want to join the navy, though I grew up listening to the stories of one grandfather's experiences, and despite them often being exciting stories to a little girl. Just because someone is an influence who was in armed combat doesn't mean that they will convince their descendent's its what should be done.


Many people in the macrobiotic community, for instance could have children old enough to go fight in Iraq.

My guess is that very few if any of these people have children embroiled in that conflict!

Be careful not to assume things about a group of people based on a guess.

And regarding post number nine, if impoverished people never had children, the world would never had known Beethoven. He was one of 7 children, 4 of which who died in childhood, in a family with no men bringing in income because the grandfather died and his father became a drunkard, sounds like they weren't contributing to society, eh?? This doesn't mean I encourage people who are poor and already have a few kids to keep having more, but if they do, its their business and I'm not gonna go around telling them they have to have an abortion because I personally dislike the way they live and feel they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

Yes, I support freedom of the individual and not a totalitarian government or society telling individuals what to do!

You say it now, but I can't believe you, because its so opposite of post 9 and the ideas you gave off between the lines. It feels like you believe in it so long as it follows your personal ideals.

I avoided the draft (in 1968) by standing up straight, putting me two inches over the height limit and earning me a 1-Y deferment, and had I raised children I would have taught them to avoid stupid conflicts both here and in other lands.

How about you?

Please note the following is coming from compassion, and is not an attack: I suggest you do some healing work around that. The draft was a desperate move, and shouldn't have happened, people agree that now. And attempts at drafts in 9/11 were prevented by the voice of the people crying out WE DONT WANT THIS! And yes, we know how bad a draft is by the experiences of those who were forced into it, and like all wrongs it should not be forgotten, but you seem to me to be very bitter, Bruce. It's not good to carry the anger from all those years ago.

[Bruce Paine]

Allison,

My feeling is that you misunderstood what I was saying in my post.

I did not say that I would stand in the way or stop any child that I co-produced who became an adult, who decided to join the service and go fight a war.

Once children become adults they completely think for themselves, unless they ask for their elders feelings/thoughts of the matter.

The parents are responsible for their children as they are growing up and that includes teaching them right and wrong as well as any values that they have.

If the parent believes in love thy neighbor and peacemaking, then they will teach their children to love thy neighbor and to make peace.

I find it hard to believe that parents who teach their children to love themselves and who by loving their children teach their children to love them and love their neighbors and promote peaceful relations between all people are going to have children who when they turn into adults are going to go fight in a war where it was not proven that these children nor their parents, their communities nor countrymen had anything to fear from these other people.

Parents who love their children but don't teach their children love their neighbor as themselves but instead teaches their children to be fearful of others, probably are going to have children who are eager for war, especially if their children are also taught that there is life after death and therefore death is something that can be risked in any conflict.


While it is true that poverty produced Mozart and many great things can come out of poverty, even extreme poverty, that's not a good reason to promote families living under such condition because there is evidence that many unbalanced and violent individuals, especially, recently, have been produced under those same conditions, and the other side of that coin is that many people around the world are dying unnecessarily do to their extreme poverty.

Abstinence and abortion are not the same thing and I don't know why you brought abortion into this conversation.

My feeling is that if the people in the countries where there are so many of them are dying of AIDS for instance were eating a more balanced diet, much less meat and sugar in those hot tropical regions, then their desire to have sex might lessen enough to make it easier for them to practice abstinence and therefore lessen the spread of that terrible disease.

Please understand that when I say that poor people who cannot provide a balanced dietary and social environment for their children should be encouraged to practice abstinence, I'm not saying that they should be forced to do so.

Many religions are suggesting that their followers not practice birth control but the are not forcing their followers to obey them, so for the same token, grown parents and educators could encourage children and young adults to practice abstinence without using force.

I don't know if I am angry as you say or am bitter.

Please explain the basis for what you have said.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[azulparsnip]

I have a few things to say here but no time right now...I'll be back tommorrow.

[WonderlandAlli]

All I can do is interpret the things you write, this is the Internet where there is no tone of voice to lean on.

You have your opinions on people who choose to become soldiers, and I am free to disagree, because the idea that my friends who joined the armed forces were raised without love for others is so incorrect to me. They can love their neighbor, and at the same time, know that their neighbor doesn't necessarily love them, and make themselves prepared to defend themselves from that unloving neighbor. This is exactly what I see my friends as having done, because I know what kind of open people they are. I can't bear to think what would happen to the USA if we suddenly disbanded our armies and navies and such because war is bad, we'd get trampled and conquered by other countries so fast... And we didn't need parents to tell us to fear the people that wish us harm, its basic survival and the reality of 9/11 made sure my generation knew that the threat to survival was real.

And this is supposed to be a thread on birth control, and I think difference of opinion needs to be agreed and get the thread back on topic. I don't want to talk about 9/11 anymore, or what you may think of my friends and their decisions.

"My feeling is that if the people in the countries where there are so many of them are dying of AIDS for instance were eating a more balanced diet, much less meat and sugar in those hot tropical regions, then their desire to have sex might lessen enough to make it easier for them to practice abstinence and therefore lessen the spread of that terrible disease."

There's just so much that goes into each of those countries individual situations... mass mono-agriculture, selling everything to bigger countries to try and bring in income, but those bigger companies won't pay anything but the least they can get away with, the lack of medical care, the lack of their government's accountability on what happens with aid money... Plus I read that someone had started a rumor that sex with a virgin cures aids, so there was an increase in rapes in Africa for that very reason, which spread aids...

There's so much more than diet that goes into it, they're very desperate people caught in a desperate situation, and even those that don't have aids are still trying to keep living. Part of human instincts is to reproduce, sex is a natural occurrence and people aren't gonna just stop doing it, especially when they are desperate as the people in these countries are to survive, when they have children that are dieing, each child they have that does live is a victory.

Just because its a solution doesn't mean people will do it. My sister in law is lactose intolerant but she'll eat ice cream anyway, knowing what kind of cramps she'll get later. The pleasure of the ice cream at the time she has it feels better than she anticipates the pain of the cramps will be. That's the same thing that sex is for many desperate people, its a small pleasure they won't give up, even though they know its safer and better for them to do so because of their health, or because they know they will only pass on poor health to the partners they have.

"Please understand that when I say that poor people who cannot provide a balanced dietary and social environment for their children should be encouraged to practice abstinence, I'm not saying that they should be forced to do so."

I believe you, just note that before you only said they should practice, not that they should be encouraged to practice, and so that's all I could interpret from your statement. And I'm sure there are plenty of programs all over the world of people encouraging abstinence.

Many religions are suggesting that their followers not practice birth control but the are not forcing their followers to obey them, so for the same token, grown parents and educators could encourage children and young adults to practice abstinence without using force.

Obviously, that alone doesn't work. The statistics in teen pregnancy in America shows that, you can suggest they abstain all you want, that won't stop them. I'd rather see them able to go to the nurses office and say I need a condom, and receive it, so they can avoid pregnancy and protect themselves at some level from STDs, than be denied it and told they need to just not do it at all. Because if they want it, they're gonna find some way to get away with it. In a way similar to teens looking to deal with their raging hormones, impoverished people need a way out of their desperation. Most people (regardless of income) live heavily within the ego and if the ego is unhappy, it's gonna latch onto whatever smaller things add to a bit of happiness, even if it only causes more desperation later. So if that ends up being sex, then they're not gonna give it up just because you tell them its a bad idea. It's a decision they have to determine for themselves, to take care of themselves or not. (Because they're not gonna care about eating fruits and veggies anyway if they don't already have the desire to take care of themselves.)

I don't know if I am angry as you say or am bitter.

Please explain the basis for what you have said.

All I can say is that its how the wording you used seemed to me.