Stimulants

[johreiki]

Some basic yin-yang questions:

Coffee and tea are strongly yin, right? But coffee and tea are stimulants....and yin is associated with relaxation, the opposite of stimulation. So how is it that coffee and tea are yin?

Is caffeine yin -- or is it yang, and is there something else in coffee and tea that makes them yin overall?

What about cocaine? Like coffee and tea, cocaine is a stimulant, not a relaxant. Is it yin or yang? Chemically, caffe-ine and coca-ine are both members of the "-ine" family....

[Bruce Paine]

Hi Don, and welcome to Cybermacro!

My thought is that though coffee, tea (not kukicha), and cocaine are stimulants which could be yang, initially, the end result is yin.

How long does the stimulation of coffee and tea (Camellia sinensis) last?

Maybe, though, stimulants could also be yin, in that they precipitate a temporary yang action.


How are things in Hilo?

What foods are the center of a Hawaiian macrobiotic diet?


Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[Mara]

My impression was that stimulants left you yin because they put a strain on your adrenals, temporarily charging you up by releasing your own stored energy, but if over-used, leaving you drained of this vital energy.

Bruce, is this correct?

[Rafflesia]

I always associate stimulants as making me very dehydrated, althoguh i don't always realize it at the time of consumption/use. Is this an inherently yin or yang characteristic?

[Nancy]

Joreiki,

The effect of drugs (caffeine, cocaine, etc.) are to first excite, then deeply relax or exhaust. This is the effect of stimulants. At first people get a jolt from caffeine, cocaine, nicotine, alcohol...then comes the relaxation effect.

Observe a cat go crazy on catnip, then soon become deeply relaxed.

Alcohol can stimulate excited talk and aggressive behavior taken to extremes, followed by complete (passed out) exhaustion.

With too much caffeine, there may be so much artificial energy expended accomplishing work that it is followed by unnatural exhaustion, rather than the healthy rhythms of productive activity and restful sleep. The caffeinated way is not healthy balance.

Same with all the other drugs, the prolonged effect on the body is yin. Rather than building natural energy and creative stimulation for the mind (from natural, nourishing foods and creative activities) --all forms of drugs result in broken health, lethargy, and dissipation.

Thus, these substances are at the cusp of the extremes -- overexcitment, then exhaustion. Interchangeable at the extremes (changing from extreme yang to extreme yin).

Nancy

[johreiki]

Originally Posted by Rafflesia

I always associate stimulants as making me very dehydrated, althoguh i don't always realize it at the time of consumption/use. Is this an inherently yin or yang characteristic?

Thanks for the input. I'd say dehydration is definitely a yang characteristic.


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[johreiki]

Nancy -----

Thanks for the very thoughtful answer. Comments below....

Originally Posted by Nancy

The effect of drugs (caffeine, cocaine, etc.) are to first excite, then deeply relax or exhaust. This is the effect of stimulants. At first people get a jolt from caffeine, cocaine, nicotine, alcohol...then comes the relaxation effect.

Observe a cat go crazy on catnip, then soon become deeply relaxed.

Alcohol can stimulate excited talk and aggressive behavior taken to extremes, followed by complete (passed out) exhaustion.

#### It also seems to me that alcohol affects different people quite differently; for some, the whole effect seems to be relaxation, but others go through an "activated" stage before getting there, as you mention. To me, alcohol has always seemed yin and relaxing....and it is generally categorized as a "depressant" -- so the pseudo-stimulant effect in some people is still a bit of a mystery to me....

Originally Posted by Nancy

With too much caffeine, there may be so much artificial energy expended accomplishing work that it is followed by unnatural exhaustion, rather than the healthy rhythms of productive activity and restful sleep. The caffeinated way is not healthy balance.

Same with all the other drugs, the prolonged effect on the body is yin. Rather than building natural energy and creative stimulation for the mind (from natural, nourishing foods and creative activities) --all forms of drugs result in broken health, lethargy, and dissipation.

#### Amen to that!! : ^ )

Originally Posted by Nancy

Thus, these substances are at the cusp of the extremes -- overexcitment, then exhaustion. Interchangeable at the extremes (changing from extreme yang to extreme yin).

#### Yes.... Thanks again!

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[johreiki]

Originally Posted by Mara

My impression was that stimulants left you yin because they put a strain on your adrenals, temporarily charging you up by releasing your own stored energy, but if over-used, leaving you drained of this vital energy.

Bruce, is this correct?

#### Seems likely to me....

Thanks very much ------
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[johreiki]

Bruce -----

Thanks for the welcome and the input....

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

Hi Don, and welcome to Cybermacro!

My thought is that though coffee, tea (not kukicha), and cocaine are stimulants which could be yang, initially, the end result is yin.

How long does the stimulation of coffee and tea (Camellia sinensis) last?

Maybe, though, stimulants could also be yin, in that they precipitate a temporary yang action.


How are things in Hilo?

What foods are the center of a Hawaiian macrobiotic diet?

#### I love Hilo; I feel more at home there than anywhere I've been in a dozen years.

My Hawai'ian macrobiotic diet is still centered on whole grains....even though I've been unable to find any grain grown there, and grains were not traditionally eaten there. The staple food traditionally was poi, taro root baked for hours and then pounded....but the commercially available poi seems too yin (I'm sure it's pureed in giant, industrial blenders, certainly not pounded, and probably not baked either) and also too expensive (about $4.00 a pound, and it's mostly water!). I haven't been willing to do the long baking and pounding to make my own poi....so have stayed with grains (imported from California).

I was making WONDERFUL sourdough bread for a long time, until my flour mill stopped working properly -- and I haven't found a replacement for it yet.

Along with whole grains, I've been eating local sweet potatoes (purple and yellow varieties), cassava root, green onions, parsley, cilantro, lettuce, bok choy and similar greens, celery, daikon, avocado, a squash occasionally, breadfruit, starfruit, bananas, lemons....


Blessings to you in Boston -----
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[Bruce Paine]

Don,

My guess is that short grain brown rice is too yang for Hawaii, so what kind do you consume?

Regarding the grain mill, check out the mills in the latest update of Cybermacro's catalog http://store.cybermacro.com/cookware-grain-mills.php

What kind of mill had you been using?

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[Nancy]

"It also seems to me that alcohol affects different people quite differently; for some, the whole effect seems to be relaxation, but others go through an "activated" stage before getting there, as you mention. To me, alcohol has always seemed yin and relaxing....and it is generally categorized as a "depressant" -- so the pseudo-stimulant effect in some people is still a bit of a mystery to me..."

Don Joh,

Alcohol is probably the epitome of a substance that is interchangeably yin and yang. It does relax and also stimulates activity through the loosening of inhibitions. If alone, it relaxes. When with people or in social environs, it activates animated conversation at the very least and "gone wild" behavior at the extreme. In the company of others, not many sit quietly and inactively when drinking.

At the extreme ends of the y/y scale, yang turns into yin, and yin turns into yang.

My brother recently told me of a woman who was consuming 5 liters of Vodka a day. One of the slang expressions of this state is, "pickled". Definitely yin.

Nancy

[johreiki]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Alcohol is probably the epitome of a substance that is interchangeably yin and yang. It does relax and also stimulates activity through the loosening of inhibitions. If alone, it relaxes. When with people or in social environs, it activates animated conversation at the very least and "gone wild" behavior at the extreme. In the company of others, not many sit quietly and inactively when drinking.

At the extreme ends of the y/y scale, yang turns into yin, and yin turns into yang.

My brother recently told me of a woman who was consuming 5 liters of Vodka a day. One of the slang expressions of this state is, "pickled".

#### Yes, indeedy!!!

Originally Posted by Nancy

Definitely yin.

#### Though, after that much, it seems it might actually flip to yang....

Be well and balanced : ^ ) -----
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[johreiki]

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

Don,

My guess is that short grain brown rice is too yang for Hawaii, so what kind do you consume?

#### Mixtures of grains: short-grain and long-grain rice, or short-grain rice and wheat or oats, or short-grain rice and barley, etc. Lately I've been liking rice and barley. It doesn't seem too yang, because I've been eating enough uncooked greens and fruits to balance it.

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

Regarding the grain mill, check out the mills in the latest update of Cybermacro's catalog http://store.cybermacro.com/cookware-grain-mills.php

#### Thanks....

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

What kind of mill had you been using?

#### I don't recall the name; a simple, small, hand-crank one I got years ago. I'll take a look in the catalog....

Be well ------
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[Ilanit]

It seems to me that the stimulant releases deep or stored yang and then disperses it...until there is no deep or real energy left to disperse!

When I was grappling with the issues of how can magnesium - a yang element have the effect of relaxing muscles I came to an intermittent conclusion that this could be one pathway...well now I can at least sleep at night! ;-)

but with caffeine it seems to send people richocheting (sp?) between yin and yang and that is why (according to a class at the Ki in Amsterdam) it is so hard to make a home remedy to balance a person in caffeine withdrawal...

ilanit