Long term macro's and lack of energy?

[nattoman]

Have any other long term macro's experienced fatigue, lethergy and exhaustion?

Could this be because of a lack of protein in the diet?

I am looking at the work of Michael Tierra, herbologist from the West Coast, and he suggests that the mb diet can lead to these problems.

Any opinions out there?

Thanks

Nattoman

[michelle494]

Poor Nattoman.......tell me...do you wear a cape & your underpants outside your trousers?
:p
I have no answer to your question .....
I have severe fatigue & get more energy if I make the foods a bit yang You know.....more oil, salt, slow long cooking, more root vegetable, less fruit, alcohol & vinegar & NO RAW food!!

Michelle

There is not a lack of protein in the standard macrobiotic diet which averages
around 12% across the board. This is provided by grains, beans, land and sea veggies, seeds, nuts, herbs, whote-meat fish,fruits. Red meat, dairy and poultry
are not used on a regular basis by macrobiotics and their high-protein content
accumulates to toxic levels that rob the body of essential minerals as well as increased levels of cholesterol.

The problem of fatigue comes from poor eating habits, poor knowledge of yin/yang
cooking, poor digestiv health, over-eating,
lack of exercise, excess oil and flour products.

Mr. Tierra's charges are, as usual, unfounded. It is carbohydrates that create the majority of the energy the body uses. Proteins do not make energy, they do however help to build and renew cells, musccles and tissues. I hope this helps your understanding about macrobiotics a little more.

In peace, Roy

[nattoman]

Michelle,
Thanks for the inquiry about my underwear, actually I don't wear any!

Roy, you have provided the usual macrobiotic reply to my question.

However, when I look around at people who have followed the diet for a long time, such as myself, I see many people in the same situation.

Even so-called macrobiotic experts/teachers are experiencing problems (e.g. Herman Aihara died of heart disease!!) . If the so-called teachers are unable to maintain good health who is there that has the understanding to make this diet work? I don't feel it is enough to say that it is poor understanding that is the cause here.

It doesn't matter how long you have been macrobiotic for, or if you are Herman Aihara, or Nattoman. Your question centered on lack of protein as a possible reason for
fatugue, exhaustion. It is not a lack of protein that causes these problems, but a lack of understanding how to apply yin/yang adjustments of foods to one's particular
set of physical/mental/spiritual make-up.
Macrobiotics is flexible and modifications are required for each person and each environmnet/season, etc. If understanding was
absolutely correct there would be no disease, so problem is NOT lack of protein but lack of proper understanding and application. Modifications need to be constantly made due to aging, environment,
inheritence, genetics, etc. Sorry if you don't agree with this assesment. WHat do you think the reason is for some long term macros being "lethargic."? Maybe your long practice of macrobiotics will help us to
understand why this probalems SOMETIMES occurs.

In peace, Roy

[nattoman]

Roy,
I have not stated that protein is the cause of fatigue, merely raising the question in light of many long-term macro's displaying similar problems as myself.

Your insistence that these problems are due to lack of understanding begs the question "Just where are these people with the understanding?" I have yet so find them. I have not found a macrobiotic teacher, or layperson for that matter, who has displayed true health (and I have known many of the best). That is health in all area's of life. Most are fixated with food as the cause of all their problems.

Your closed-minded attitude is typical of the macrobiotic mindset, which is propogated by the obsessive-compulsive latching on to dogma rather than true understanding. The insistence that there is a 'lack of understanding' is reminiscent of the medieval church controlling the masses through fear.

You say that "If understanding was
absolutely correct there would be no disease" is so naive. Show me one healthy macrobiotic teacher of both mind and body who has universal understanding!

Take a look around you and start to think for yourself, rather than repeating vague truisms.

Yours in truth and light,
Nattoman

Nattoman, I fully agree with Roy that personal attacks of others here will not be tolerated, and if you do not tone down your behavior, you will be banned.

This is something that I rather not do and I think that the thread that you initated is rather interesting, so all I ask is that you remember that you are a guest here and the only rule of the house is to be respectful of others.

By the way, looks like Macrobabe is your girlfriend. In her post she mentions that you have had CFS which developed after being a long term macro. I can in a way see how this can create so much frustration which we sense in your post. I am very interested to hear you talk about your illness if you are willing to.

Thanks,

Gary

[nattoman]

Roy,

I stand by my last message. If you feel the need to ban my dissenting opinion from your site, so be it.

I certainly stand by my assessment of your statement "If understanding was
absolutely correct there would be no disease” to be naive. This is not intended as a personal attack. As I said, show me one person who has achieved this level of understanding and I will reconsider my position.

The blanket assertion that there is “a lack of understanding” is the universal response to any problem that arises with a macrobiotic person.


Consider the following. Did Herman Aihara have a “a lack of understanding”, did Aveline Kushi have a “a lack of understanding”, did Murray Snyder have a “a lack of understanding”, did Cecile Levin have “a lack of understanding”, did Lily Kushi have a “a lack of understanding”. I could go on.

Maybe this attitude of ‘lack’ is the reason macrobiotics as a movement continues it’s sorry decline in the 21st Century.

Nattoman

[nattoman]

P.S.

Macrobabe sounds hot , does anyone have her email?

Nattoman

[garymill]

NattoMan, your writting style is the mirror image of Harold who for those who do not know, was pretty disruptive to CyberMacro's old forums.

Harold was from New England just as you are, I did some checking and the IP address that you use when you post shows that you are using ATT Media One Cable Internet Access in New England.

Your IP address is 24.91.204.106 :p You will notice that if you look at each of your posts, they all use the same ip address as when you have this type of internet access, unlike a dial up modem connection, your IP address never changes which is a dead giveaway when you try to post using another name as you also posted under the handle MacroBabe.

Obviously both you and MacroBabe are the same person as you both have the same IP address, meaning that either She is your girlfriend and lives with you and also posts, which in your last one you said you do not know who she is, or you in fact are her. This is exactly the same type of thing that Harold used to do.

I have not stated that You stated that protein was the cause of fatigue. Please
re-read what I said one last time:

>Your question centered on lack of protien as a possible reason for fatigue,exhaustion.<

Many non-maco people eat extremely high levels of protein and become exhausted/fatigued so this cannot be the problem.

I think that that this alone makes a reliable case in itself. Long term macrobiotics may have good understanding of
"concepts" by not a good understanding of
self (innermost feelings) and may place concepts above intuition. This is what I am driving at. We must not ignore the inner needs we have.

You did not answer my question for reasons why some long-term macrobiotics are "lethargic." I did notice that you have attempted to put me down on two occassions in your post (using the words naive and close-minded) which I take offense to. Thsese put-downs are relative to your level of thinking only and hold little meaning from a larger perspective. As this website does not tolerate abusive language and personal attacks, I'm sure you understand that you must cease in this behavior. Quite
unusual for such an open-minded and not so naieve of a person, no?

Putting it in another way, if you continue to violate our rules by personally putting down people here then you will not post here again.

In peace, Roy

[nattoman]

Harold sounds like an intersesting guy. Does he still participate in the forum?

Nattoman

[michelle494]

Seems like you're getting given a hard time for your idea that macro may not be good in the long term......macrobabe said this to me too...... but you have been nice to me & I'll give you 5 stars for your honesty
And coz you've taken a lot of stick......even a super hero can only take so much before he loses his cool :p especially when being ganged up on by people who feel a bit
Ive never tried natto but Roys a really good guy & he's helped me out a lot. Harold was really mean to everyone but if he became like you then that would be really cool

Michelle

[Elizabeth Sunderland]

Hi Nattoman,

Would you call Denny Waxman and Michio Kushi lethargic and lacking energy? I don't thinks so. Fatigue is from acidic blood. Maybe try some umeboshi in your diet. My husband works eight hours a day outside, doing gardning work. We eat a macrobiotic diet, with more fish and long cooked dishes.

Maybe what you are seeing as lethargy is subtelty. Many MB people seem like they aren't doing much (and some of us aren't) but really the effects of our influence come much later. I don't think that it is really fair for you to knock Herman Aihara and Aveline Kushi. They were old; we've all got to die some time. Look at all they did to help others Michio and Aveline practically ignited the natural foods movement. If you're feeling tired and lethargic, maybe you should look at your own diet- too yin, too yang, too wide, too narrow? or maybe you should get a consultation with one of the more energetic MB counselors.

Thanks

Elizabeth

[michelle494]

I think Natto man has been evicted from the group about a week ago
I agree .....macro doesnt make us immortal
It extends our lifespan & slows down the aging process of our bodily organs.
We still have to go through the same decline and illnesses that old people go through but hopefully much less than if we ate a normal diet & hopefully in our 70s rather than our 60s or 50s.
Ive seen books promising we can live till 100.......... be cured of any illness in 10 days........I think this is what bothers people cause if the experts cant do it , then a mistrust forms........
So these problems are easily avoided if we avoid making guaruntees & extreme statements in books.
The human body according to Buddhism is a machine doomed to failure & demise.........we just have to live as comfortably as we can ........according to Buddhism the ultimate goal is not to attain optimum human health & human success. It is to solve the problem of human rebirth as the human body causes many problems & is not the best rebirth.....