Long term macro's and lack of energy?

[jane b]

Elizabeth,

Michio and Denny Waxman may have energy but they both look SO unhealthy! And what is it with the incessant smoking they both do??

Jane b.

[michelle494]

Does Michio Kushi smoke?

[Bruce Paine]

Well, Michelle, I guess that depends on whether or not he's on fire!

If you really don't know, read the post:
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/macro/message/6808 ).

Read enough of the archives and you will find that alot of the old guard macros are smokers (I started after high school in 1968 and last took a puff in 1987) and the Japanese not being big on expressing their feelings find a great comfort in smoking.

You're not thinking of quitting macrobiotics, knowing that these teacher/counselors/leaders are imperfect enough to have addictions, are you?

I think that it's important to not confuse macrobiotics and the people involved in it.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[michelle494]

of course not.........
many smokers have lived till 100. You know me.......too yin ........so Im very adaptable to new information

[Bruce Paine]

michelle,

You don't seem too yang to me!

Like your hair, which is yang in the center (bangs) and yin on the periphery (at least shoulder length), you are seeking your balance.

Either too yin or too yang could be approaching or reaching death.

You on the other hand, appear to be very much alive!

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[michelle494]

Well I have been in bed for the last 3yrs..........so Im definately too something!!!!!

[Roy Collins]

Hi Bruce and Michelle. I've been reading your cigarette smoking threads and would like to comment on this. Like Bruce I
too was a smoker when I first started macrobiotics and the belief that it was a yangizing factor made it somehow justifiable. Then the medical evidence satrted to pile showing how tar, nicotiene and the laundry list of poison additives/preseratives in cigarettes
cause cancer, emphysyma and contibute to birth risks, etc.

Not only was the evidence that cigarettes compromise the health of smokers and non-smokers (second-hand smoke) but also we have to see the contradiction of using "extremes" in our diet and supporting efforts that are poisoning the land and violating the health rights of innocent bystanders (especailly the elderly and those of tender years).

If we look at the tobacco plant itself we know that it is in the family of NIGHTSHADES -- a toxic group of extreme yin plants that we are told to AVOID as macrobiotics. Add to this the high amount of chemical additives and preseravatives (over 75
known toxins) that are extremely yin in themselves but made more yin as they bind with the sticky tar residue that has a burning component and destroys tissue/cells. By adding FIRE to the tobacco we create another extreme in the process (nicotine/nightshade/chemicals vs FIRE)! Two ends of the yin/yang pole, no?

The immune response in the very yound and very old are not as capable of arresting the negative effects of tobacco products and second hand smoke residuals. Recent tests (2001) of the effects of cigarette smoke on test subjects of non-smokers showed a distinct dialation and hardening of arteries and plaque build-up after only a shot time exposure to second hand smoke in an enclosed room. AFter age 40 the immune system naturally begins to weaken (see Yellow Emperor's CLassic) and loses the capability of recognizing foreign pathogens in the body. As the
effects of nicotiene residuals are cumulative over the years this places the smokers in a higher risk category for getting bladder and lung cancers when they are older. I am a prime example of
this end result.

We may THINK that being macrobiotic gives us superhuman qualities but the fact is that the internal environemt of the macrobiotic is actually much more sensive to environmental pollutants than of those that have more hardened body types,
who have learned to better adapt to the world of SAD foods and
pollutants (hence the need for stronger drugs). And still, they are not fully immune to these external patogens, anitgens and carcinogens.

With inhaled tobacco there are extrems of yin/yang (vaso constriction-dialtion) of lungs, nerves, cells, arteries, etc. The strong miso "antidote" used by macro-smokers (for help rid
tar from lungs) is a smokescreen only. In truth the high-salt
adds to more constriction of arteries and vessels and compromises health even more, especially in the elderly.

I don't think I need to go into the negative "image" cigarette smoking by macro leaders has on new-comers. The statistics and evidence is great enough at this point to prove that it is not justifable by ancient yin/yang nor by modern science.

The macrobiotic "leaders" mentioned may have a differnet opinion that myself on this -- I'm sure of it, otherwise they wouldn't be smoking, but their actions do not speak for all macrobiotics. And because they do something or say something does not mean it is correct from the larger viewpoint. It is a relative sentiment only.

An individual can speak only for him/her self only. Because Michio or Denny smokes cigarettes does not mean we should all start smoking. We have to take responsiblility for our own lives and weigh each and everything we see and hear, with a grain of sea-salt.

I hope this helps.

In peace, Roy (1-year cancer survivor/34 years macrobiotic/former promoter of cigarette smoking).

[Katya]

I have just read some of the notes on the forum and as a result I feel totally confused and bewildered by some of the stuff I have read. I am relatively new to macrobiotics and unknowingly have been working my way of life towards this way over the last two or three years. What I have been absolutely shocked to find are the facts that people who seem to be the 'angels' and promoters of this seemingly perfect way of life, the Nirvana if you like of the way to live on this planet of ours, pay scant regard to their own health and well being. The so-called apostles of the way, the truth, and the life. Have they never actually believed in what they preach? They cannot have taken macro seriously in their own lives, they might not want to face that fact, but as I see it it is absolutely true, you cannot say one thing and do another. It sounds like a case of ' do as I say, not do as I do'!It is , for one thing, not ethical and for another thing these people are only cheating themselves., and must be very weak characters. From my own very brief experience of Macro, being a total convert for only about three months, I can say that my life is showing a very dramatic change.. over the past three or four weeks I have come to see and understand that I am feeling so different , and I think that this feeling is telling me that my blood change is completed, that it is almost totally where it should be for optimum health despite the fact that I despise soya in any way shape or form. After many years of unknown reasons for feeling tense and strained, I feel that I have burst into an almost rebirth if you like.I wake up every morning bouncing with energy and leaping out of bed thanking the Lord for my great night's sleep and for the joy of another day with the birds singing outside my window.I feel ALIVE...ALIVE...ALIVE...and I feel SO well , I know I must be. In my country we are blest with bountiful spring water and abundant organic fruit and vegetables and grains of the very highest quality. Since becoming completely macro my husband and I live far more cheaply than we ever did before ,even though the organic food and other household products we buy cost more than ordinary supermarket rubbish. Everything is available to us as bulk buys(loose) so we buy only as much as we eat for a week and get everything fresh from day to day as far as fruit and veggies go. I take macrobiotics VERY seriously, what is the point of going this way if you are careless about other aspects of your life, including maintenance of habits that negate any benefit from eating macro enhancing foods! One must ALWAYS remember that Macrobiotics is not only about eating, it is about our spiritual life as well and I wonder how many people seriously consider that at all. To be a true Macro person it is absolutely necessaryto be brutally honest, first of all with yourself- can you face yourselves my friends and do you like what you see? If not you owe it to yourself to change that which you do not like. There is no room for sloppiness in this way. There is no point in practising a PARTIAL macrobiotic way of life, it then becomes not a macrobiotic way of life at all and you are only fooling youselves.I haven't really 'liked' myself for years, but how my life has changed over the last few months , my attitude towards myself is a million light years different.. Ifeel so different, renewed, if you like and that is....... because I AM!......... I love ME!! My friends.. can you say that about yourselves? When you can you will have arrived at your destination.:eek::eek:

[michelle494]

This sort of thing is part & parcel of the package of being human........these role models are trying to revive something that worked wonderfully in the past for asians........hundreds of years ago.....to achieve long life.....I feel that the technique of perfect eating was mastered in the past to perfection ......but alas there are no people who have mastered it to perfection who are still alive.........somewhere in history.....a generation lost the correct way of eating for longevity........then the subsequent generations have been trying to gather all the historical facts, researching, studying, experimenting - trying to rediscover/achieve what the ancient macrobiotics did.........its like a generation losing the bible & then trying to recompose it by researching & trying to recall what it said.
So George Ohsawa (very kindly) did vast research of the history of asian eating, yin & yang, taoism, buddhism & everything that could help find the perfect way to balance yin & yang & cure the sick. Then he experimented with his conclusions by trying to cure the sick & met with great success with a superior balance of yin/yang . He led many to much improved health...........
The problem is he didn't rediscover the most perfect technique that was lost in ancient history, his technique is as near perfection as one will find in this day & age.
The proof that we have not found perfection yet is in that:
1 macrobiotics are not living till 100 like in history they did
2 people are craving extreme foods & cannot keep up the diet perfectly long term
This doesnt matter because the macrobiotic diet is able to heal/help many very sick people (myself eg). It is one of the best diets avaliable nowadays.....thanks to the hard work of George Ohsawa.
The problem with macrobiotics will continue until the macro leaders stop promising to attain things which they will not be able to attain........eg promising to live to 100......then people will not have unrealistic expectations..........and give up if they are not accomplished.........macro should be promoted as a tool for greater health & longevity.......not as a miracle that leads to perfection & freedom from all health problems for life

Michelle

[Roy Collins]

Hi Michelle. There are some important issues that you bring up here -- some of these have to do with myths promoted by certain individauls and groups; some have to do with individual interpretation of definitions, some have to do with conventions
and concepts that are NOT universally accepted by all followers of marobiotics, and some have to do with misunderstanding and
application of yin/yang and natural laws. To get to the bottom of this I think we need to take your criticism of macrobiotics and
its practice sentence by sentence.....

you wrote: This sort of thing is part & parcel of the package of being human........these role models are trying to revive something that worked wonderfully in the past for asians........hundreds of years ago.....to achieve long life.....

RC: Agreed. Human consciousness is constantly changing and expanding. There is no one way of doing things that is the correct or perfect way. Everything boils down to relativity and indiviudual perception of reality. The Macrobiotic "idea" has been around for thousands of years and there is NO one set way of
it being practiced. It is a generalized term only and the methods used for life harmony, extension, etc. varies with the individual and the group. SOme macrobiotics seek to attain a high quality of life ratehr than worrying about "length" of life. Some think the other way around, and still others believe than one leads to the other, which may or may not necessarily be true. Records of long life are not the sole property of Asians. Read the works
of Aristotle, Lucian and Galen.....

you wrote: I feel that the technique of perfect eating was mastered in the past to perfection ......but alas there are no people who have mastered it to perfection who are still alive.........somewhere in history.....a generation lost the correct way of eating for longevity........then the subsequent generations have been trying to gather all the historical facts, researching, studying, experimenting - trying to rediscover/achieve what the ancient macrobiotics did.........its like a generation losing the bible & then trying to recompose it by researching & trying to recall what it said.

RC: There is no thing as "perfection" when it comes to eating techniques, only individual needs and harmony based on the individual needs. Not all people can be eating exactly the same
types of foods or share the same cooking methods as there are
so many differing factors that are involved in food choices based on climate, season, geography, personal need, heriditary and cultural factors, age differences, etc. One can only "master" what is going on in their personal habitat and spece/time frame they live in. What was good for people during the ice age is not good for us now. Everything changes -- blood types, morphologiocal
structure, internal homeostasis, blood ph, yin/yang needs, etc.
WHile we can see certain patterns of eating that involve similar methods and techniues for secleting and preparing foods, we cannot rely solely on the past, as today is different from yesterday. Even the pole stars and desserts and oceans have been changed trhough time. We have to adapt to the here and now and follow the flow of energy that course through our universe, our globe and our bodies NOW. They did not have high level toxins, flourocarbons, chemical pesticides, auto exhaust, etc. during Lao Tzu's time. . Adaptation is the key to survival. Please re-read Darwin. he was a smart vegetarian. English too, I think.

you wrote: So George Ohsawa (very kindly) did vast research of the history of asian eating, yin & yang, taoism, buddhism & everything that could help find the perfect way to balance yin & yang & cure the sick. Then he experimented with his conclusions by trying to cure the sick & met with great success with a superior balance of yin/yang . He led many to much improved health...........
The problem is he didn't rediscover the most perfect technique that was lost in ancient history, his technique is as near perfection as one will find in this day & age.

RC: Yes, Ohsawa was one of many who attempted this enormous feat. Tung Chung-Shu tried to do the same thing during the Han Dynasty. Both made some progress and helped many people. Others such as Lao Tzu and Zhuangzhu also discovered the unique principle. While they did utilize yin/yang idea their knowledge and application were not "perfected" to the degree which you speak of -- maybe Ohsawa went overboard and got too technical -- maybe Lao Tzu not technical enough. Each applied yin/yang according to thier beliefs, experience in life and level of judgment. We all try our best but there are so many other factors that keep cropping up that make it difficult for perfection to exist. The law of change is always a constant its elusive nature makes it necessry to realize that there is not such thing as perfection - once you think you have it, you in fact, DON'T.
That is the illusion we maust stay away from. We must learn to be more flexible and less judgmental of others....

you wrote: The proof that we have not found perfection yet is in that:
1 macrobiotics are not living till 100 like in history they did
2 people are craving extreme foods & cannot keep up the diet perfectly long term
This doesnt matter because the macrobiotic diet is able to heal/help many very sick people (myself eg). It is one of the best diets avaliable nowadays.....thanks to the hard work of George Ohsawa.

RC: Macrobiotics is only one way and that one way is perceived and interpreted a thousand different ways. WE should be happy just to be alive. If we reach the age of 40 we should all pat ourselves on the backs and congratulate ourselves for making it this far in the technological jungle. The Nei Jing says it is nearly over for a man when he nears the age of 64. The age factor is not a real barometer for health and happiness. People who crave extreme foods are not macrobiotics but are good candidtaes for becomming macro once they go overboard! George Ohsawa was one of a handful of macrobiotic thinkers who inspired many people to seek harmony using yin/yang application to food. he was a hard worker -- maybe worked too hard. Yes macrobiotic is a very sound diet and practice, I agree.

you wrote: The problem with macrobiotics will continue until the macro leaders stop promising to attain things which they will not be able to attain........eg promising to live to 100......then people will not have unrealistic expectations..........and give up if they are not accomplished.........macro should be promoted as a tool for greater health & longevity.......not as a miracle that leads to perfection & freedom from all health problems for life

RC: The problem is not with macrobiotics it is with people who have a poor understanding of what macrobiotics is -- its history,
etymology, philosophy, practial apllication, etc. I agree that it should not be promoted as a means for living beyond 100 although I am not sure if I ever read that that is what its purpose was. I like to think it is becomming a free person who knows how to make balanced decisions and live in harmony with the world. I don't listen too much what macrobiotic leaders say. Neither should you. Listen to natures voice instead. This is the best way to learn macrobiotics....

In peace, Roy