Which of Kushi's books should I recommend

[Mara]

I only have read his older books, which do contain certain amount of outdated & potentially offensive views of women and gays.
I was wondering, of his newer books, in which ones does he abstain from his ridiculous opinions on gender and sexuality?

I would like to recommend Kushi to friends, family, and acquaintances on the Internet but I don't want them to pick up a book and a develop negative view of macrobiotics, because a certain book is full of bigotry or ignorance.

Thanks for your help.

Mara

[hendrik]

Hi,mara.
I think, One peaceful world is a good book to start with.( it was my first) But he has many good books. Forgotten worlds, the philosopher’s stone … Al very amusing and interesting. Maybe the standard mc diet is also a good one to introduce.A very in portend one is, Complete Guide to Macrobiotic Cooking for health, Harmony and Peace by Aveline Kushi with Alex Jack. What about this old book you have, what is the title?

Good luck, hendrik.

Ps I’ll go for One peaceful world

[Mara]

Hi hendrick -- thanks for your response.

What I am looking for is something that gives a good explanation of history and prehistory from a macrobiotic viewpoint.

I have The Book of Macrobiotics by Michio Kushi, with the beautiful illustration on the cover.

I have also picked up a couple of his other books while browsing at the used bookstores, though I can't remember which ones, and felt really angry about their patriarchal and homophobic tones. I always think -- what a shame, many people who pick this up will really be turned off of macrobiotics, you know?

I don't have cash to buy any more books myself, right now, so I would like to know for sure I'm recommending the good ones. You're guaranteeing none of the things I've mentioned in these books you mention? Thanks again.

Mara

Edit -- where are my manners -- Welcome to the Cybermacro forums!

[hendrik]

Hi, mara.

The books I recommended are, I think, good books. (Forgotten Worlds ==> history .... amazing, also one peaceful word has a lot of history)
I don’t really now what you mean, I always find micho’s books very inspiring. But maybe I’m a gay patriot??? To make sure you don’t buy a book you don’t like you can always loan one of mine.

Thank fore the welcoming.

Greetings, hendrik.

[Mara]

Well, I think we are operating through something of a language barrier.

Nothing wrong with being a gay patriot --It's the patriarchy I have little patience for -- but we are digressing into silliness I think...

I would love to borrow your books, but I have the feeling they are in Dutch or French, and you are very, very far away from me!

By the way, which is your native language, hendrik? And how is the macro community in Belgium?

Peace. MJ

[hendrik]

Hi mara.
Hi, mara.

Ik spreek Nederland’s. This means, I speak Flemish.
Sorry I mend to be silly, but maybe it’s a waste of digits.
We have a very nice community. Ant a very good teacher, Jeanne Van Den Heuvel.

“I would love to borrow your books, but I have the feeling they are in Dutch or French, and you are very, very far away from me!”

Maybe if a fold them into little airplanes and eat a lot of buckwheat I can throw them your way.

Thank for pleasantry response.

Peace...

[Mara]

Originally Posted by hendrik

Hi mara.
“I would love to borrow your books, but I have the feeling they are in Dutch or French, and you are very, very far away from me!”

Maybe if a fold them into little airplanes and eat a lot of buckwheat I can throw them your way.

HA! Now that's funny! Give it a shot, I'll tell you if I get them.

I'll definitely try to check out the books you recommended.

Have a great day. MJ

[hendrik]

Originally Posted by Mara

HA! Now that's funny! Give it a shot, I'll tell you if I get them.

I'll definitely try to check out the books you recommended.

Have a great day. MJ

Thanks.
You to.
Maybe meet you later on, hendrik.

[moxiesurf]

I only had a few of Kushi's books from the early 90s. I didn't notice anything offensive toward women or homophobic. When you described his writings as patriarchal, do you mean in the sense of the father being the head of a family? Is it offensive to think that a traditional family is preferable because that has been the family structure for all advanced civilations?
I am curious to know what he wrote that was offensive.

[Mara]

Hi moxiesurf,

Sorry -- I should have been more specific. (I also need to buy some newer books straight-away, so I can see for myself-- a personal concern deserves personal research. No doubt the tone is more modern in recent editions -- I also realize that a lot of the older writing needs be taken with a grain of salt and a certain understanding of other eras' and cultures' prejudices.)

But for one example, I'll quote from "The Book of Macrobiotics" by Michio Kushi, published in 1977 and re-issued in 1982.

Introduction: The Degeneration of Modern Man
p.2) "Endless Disorder in Sexual Behavior"...."homosexual, bisexual and group sexual practices are increasing without end. The relationship between man and woman is the fundamental unit of society. . .When it loses its natural order, the future of the human species is at stake."

He continually (in the books I have read) presents the heterosexual relationship as the highest ideal, and any deviation as a sickness -- a long outdated idea. As we know, modern psychologists now concur that homosexuality is natural and healthy, and attempts to cure or repress it are damaging to the individual. Another book which takes a negative attitude towards feminism and homosexuality is "Michio Kushi On the Greater View".

I hope to get in contact with Yogen Kushi, Michio's grandson, who is gay, like myself. I am curious if Michio's attitudes have evolved in recent years and my guess is that they have.

I think Mr. Kushi's classifications of men and women are also outdated. I understand that in general, women will often share certain traits while men share certain others, but most people & social scientists nowadays would agree that there are many exceptions to these rules. Gender is much more elastic than some would insist. And yes, I do think it is old fashioned to say that men should be the heads of the household. How balanced is that, anyway? And anyway, what if it's a lesbian household?

[moxiesurf]

I doubt that Michio's attitudes on the homosexuality have changed much.
From his quotes provided earlier:
"Endless Disorder in Sexual Behavior"...."homosexual, bisexual and group sexual practices are increasing without end.
Still very true.

The relationship between man and woman is the fundamental unit of society. . .When it loses its natural order, the future of the human species is at stake."
Also true. It's my understanding that macriobiotics involves natural childbirth. For this reason alone, heterosexual relationships are still ideal. Of all creatures, humans require the most years of nurturing by their parents. That's why it's important for both parents to take care of their kids until they are old enough to be on their own. Children learn gender roles from society, but mostly from their parents. People are destroying the "fundamental unit", often at the advice of psychologists. I can't agree with most people, social scientists, or psychologists on a lot of issues. Just look at the history of psychology. It's a pseudoscience really. It's been widely accepted because people are looking for something to blame their problems on, and for an easy solution (pharmaceuticals), and for some reason not to repress sex.

I'd also like to hear what Michio's grandson has to say on the topic and whether or not Michio has changed some of his views.

[moxiesurf]

Mara,
I don't hate gay people. A lot of my friends are gay. My comments weren't about sexual preference. The comments were about what has happened to the family structure that society has been based on for so many years and what I think Michio would say about it.

I assure you I'm not ignorant about psychology. It is beneficial in a lot of ways.

Sorry if I offended you.

[Mara]

Look at what you wrote to understand my reaction. You were agreeing with Michio in his assessment of homosexuality, and you were disagreeing with psychology because, as you said "it was destroying the family unit" by giving people "some reason not to suppress sex" by which I presume you were referring to its support of gay people. Correct me if I am wrong on these points.

The fact is, no one knows what causes a minority of people to be gay but we certainly aren't harming society or family by being this way, and we certainly can't be changed by any means. I eat a balanced macrobiotic diet and am still very, very much gay.

It was cruel for Michio to ever tell gay people they could change their sexual orientations, simply because of how much self-hatred it takes to attempt to change an intrinsic part of one's self. Such ignorant attitudes foster hate and self-hate and I think any association of the word "macrobiotic" with these beliefs is terribly harmful to the cause.

[moxiesurf]

I read Michio's quotes out of context. I didn't know he tried to change people's sexual orientation.

I was agreeing with his view on the ideal family unit and it's destruction. Since most homosexuals don't have kids, I was thinking about divorced parents (and I don't hate divorced people either). I think it's wrong for parents not to take responsibility for their children.

As far as psychology goes, I have to take it with a grain of salt. My father has been a psychologists for over 40 years and has helped thousands of people. However, historically, some of it's founders and practioners have placed an emphasis on sex that that been contradictory to moral/cultural norms and societies' acceptance of this has contributed to the breakdown of the family unit. While it isn't psychologists intention, a lot of people who don't take responsible actions in their lives and blame their childhood or their parents for their problems, or take pills as a way to deal with their issues. So, again, I wasn't talking about gay people.

[Bruce Paine]

Hi,

I'm thinking that family units that are formed and support children to grow up and have rich and rewarding lives, can be any number of combinations, whether it be traditional heterosexual parenting or something different such as two fathers or two mothers (often now-a-days we see on the heterosexual side, multi-parenting because of divorce and remarriage or additional common law relationships).

So, ideals are those of the individuals or couples having them.

Because our society grows and evolves, permanent cookie cutter approaches to what is normal or correct no longer apply.

I agree that it's wrong for parents to not take responsibility or be involved in their children's lives (I experienced the limited involvement of one of my parents as the result of a divorce, so I know how that can play out).


Regarding what causes people to be a sexual orientation, I feel that there's not enough proof out there to convince everyone to believe any one thing.

Some people believe that it is genetic, and some believe that a person's sexual orientation can be caused by any number of factors including choice, diet, or socety's influence.

Because we (Americans, especially) live in a society that gives us certain freedoms including to have whatever sexual orientation that we wish, then each individual can also decide what they want to believe, whether or not they are macrobiotic.

Also, while it is true that in the earlier days of macrobiotics, certain teachers may have expressed opinions that suggested that homosexual or gay persons were/are out of balance or sick, fewer of them are saying that now, and gays are accepted members of most macrobiotic communities.

I feel that is acceptable that gays and lesbians (among others) confront homophobia wherever it occurs (including in the macrobiotic community) and then when all conflicts are resolved in that arena, move on to other issues.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine