Is macrobiotic, vegan?

[Bruce Paine]

Johnnyzen, MJS (check your Private Messages),

Indigenous peoples all seem to have eaten cereals, beans, locally grown vegetables, and some animal foods.

Persons in developing cultures (like the North Americans in the 19th century) appear to have subsisted on less meat but aspired to eating more.

United States Americans increased their animal foods consumption in the mid to late 19th century, and their children ate more as did the subsequent generations in increasing amounts.

It is only in the recent last several decades that there has been a concern about consuming too much animal foods (and a backlash more recently among some who feel that they are not getting enough protein and consuming too many carbohydrates).

With the dwindling (petrochemical) energy suppy looming on the horizon in the near future, I wonder effect that will have on our food supply, choices, and focuses.

Regarding the Indian group "here" (are you talking about within the United States or just on the North American continent?) Alex refers to two Native American peoples, including the Pimas of Arizona (and the Pimas of northern Mexico), and the Tarahumaras of the Sierra Madre Occidental Mountains in north central Mexico.

The present day Pimas in Arizona http://www.spmesquite.com/articles/ancientfoods.html who eat a diet rich in fat and processed food have had a high incidence diabetes (38.2%) whereas their cousins in Mexico have had a fraction of that (6.4%) according to Alex Jack.

Alex also says that the "Tarahumara Indians are the healthiest native community in North America" but the media reports otherwise http://www.mexicoscoppercanyon.com/tarahumara.htm.

The Tarahumaras apparently comsume some meat and eggs, in addition to their traditional diet of corn beans, and squash.

Myself, a person who works outside often in the subfreezing wintertime of New England, I find myself desiring some fish (usually no more than once a week and sometimes in the summertime as little as once a month).

If I did not feel the need to eat some occasional fish, I would probably be eating a vegan diet, but more based on how I feel and less because of some mental construct, or emotional bias.

I came into macrobiotics because the diet felt good, not because I was pursuing some spiritual or philosophical goal.

And while I can see the philosophical and the spiritual aspects of macrobiotics, that's not always what dominates my consciousness.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[trinity]

This is wonderful - I came to this forum because I am searching for a MB counselor in my area but am pleasantly surprised to find discussions of this caliber and the diverse nature of the threads. I am a vegan - vegetarian for most of my life but vegan for only a handful of years - and am very passionate about the way I have chosen to live. Having said this, I am reticent to "preach" or even discuss this choice because the topic can at times elicit defensive reactions on the part of meat eaters and I really don't want to make anyone feel "attacked" by the non meat eaters of the world. I absolutely embrace diversity and think that everyone should follow the path in life that is right for them - not anyone else. My veganism is a personal choice and makes me incredibly happy for a great number of reasons and if someone is genuinely interested in this choice, I honestly do love to talk about it, just not unsolicited. I work hard at being as non-judgemental as I possibly can and even though it makes me sad to know that so many animals have to suffer and die so that people can enjoy a meal, it is not my place to tell anyone how to live their life or what is right for them.

[Nancy]

Trinity,

I agree with your assessment that veganism cannot be dictated. Dictating would actually be an antithesis of vegan principles. Individual to each person, others are at varying stages of letting go of meat as a food to sustain life.

I spoke to an advanced Diabetic recently about the macrobiotic diet, and his mentality is that the diet will never "catch on" because it eliminates meat. This is not even accurate, but it illustrates the mind set. So those who eat meat, need their meat, or think they do.

Coming to avoidance of meat eating is like climbing the rungs of a ladder -- finally realizing at the top -- meat for food isn't doing one any good.

Ohsawa says, "Don't eat anything that runs away."

Nancy

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Trinity,

*SNIP*

Ohsawa says, "Don't eat anything that runs away."

Nancy

but we can eat stuff that swims away?

<*)))><

-brent

[Nancy]

Brent,

In Zen Macrobiotics, Ohsawa suggests avoiding anything living that runs away for its life as food for human consumption. He mentions that shrimp will not flee. However, other sources, the Bible included, says shrimp are scavengers and thus unfit food for human consumption.

Many will still eat meat, obliviously. What are the consequences? Societies filled with anxiety and fear, because vast populations are injesting cellular matter to build their own bodies that contain anxiety and fear in the cell structure.

Antidote: if too afraid of other people, take Paxil. If too afraid of life, in general, take Prozac.

Or, avoid meat.

Nancy