B12 dilemma

[EllenJ]

Hi all - just read a very interesting real-life account of a B12 deficiency and its results written by a mb 'celebrity'.

My Vitamin B12 Dilemma by Christina Pirello

How do others get their B12?

[damon]

Hi Ellen,
Thanks for the link - sounds like an interesting read.

As for B12, according to the book, "The Cure Is In The Kitchen" by Sherry A. Rogers, vitamin B12 occurs naturally in the following foods:

(measured in micrograms per gram of wet weight)

tempeh - 0.5
arame - 1.4
kombu - 19.0
wakame - 43.0

Kombu and wakame are staples in my diet so I suspect I'm getting sufficient B12; however, I've had a hard time cross verifying this data with other sources and until doing so, I continue taking a B12 supplement.

Damon

edit: There's another thread covering this topic here.

[Klara]

Damon,

I much appreciate that you know how to navigate this forum!!!!

I have a vague recollection of thanking EllenJ for bringing that article to our attention -( if you haven't read it, definitely do. It burst alot of bubbles - as do other stories of longtime mb people getting sick) but I don't know where that post was.

That's the mystery of this life - you think you're doing everything right, and then boom!!!!! It's wonderful when the story has a happy ending and the mystery was solved (as was the case with Christina's husband) but how hard it must have been during the ordeal before answers were found.

I'm with Bruce on this - fish is fine for me.

Klara

[Bruce Paine]

Hi Ellen, Damon, Klara, and friends!

Though I'm a person who eats fish up to several times a week, the rest of the time I am a vegan macrobiotic.

I eat what I'm attracted to and what's there to eat!

I lived in several macrobiotic communities where fish were not given to it's workers and with a weekly stipend of $10.00, it was difficult buying fish when many other expenditures had taken precedence, so I was kind of forced to be a total vegan macrobiotic during those months and years!!

I believe that if one wants to be a total vegan macrobiotic and get all the nutrients that one needs, one can do so without supplementation, as long as one also believes in the alchemy called biological transmutation which means that the body can manufacture what it needs from smaller amounts of nutrients and/or other kinds of nutrients!

By the way, it appears that natto might have much of the needed Vitamin B12 that other soy foods may be lacking!

Question for Damon...Is one practicing macrobiotics when taking supplements?

Many people eat meat, dairy, tropical fruits and vegetables, refined baked goods, sugar, and alcohol, and take vitamin supplements to get the nutrients lacking in their diet! Are they macrobiotic?

Macrobiotics means big life and suggests that we eat whole foods in a complete way whereas supplementation suggests that our diet is not whole or complete, so if we think we need supplementation, perhaps we are not seeing the bigger picture, that we can get everything that we need from a balanced wholesome diet.

Does that make any sense to you?

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[damon]

Wow! "Boom", indeed!

Ellen, thanks so much for posting Christina's story. Klara's saying that it'll burst a lot of bubbles is quite accurate.

The risks involved with traveling the unbeaten path were reinforced to me after reading this. In particular, the obvious need for nutrient awareness... but also the importance of good, quality fat (which warrants a discussion of its own, and something on my mind lately because of a recent comment a friend made about being able to see my ribs).

Bruce, thanks for bringing up the topic of biological transmutation. I'd love to believe the body has this capability and I'm not currently convinced otherwise; however, the story above about Christina Pirello raises some questions. Why didn't this alchemy work for her? After all, she had been practicing MB quite well for a long time; one would think she'd had sufficient materials for her body to transmute into B12.

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

Question for Damon...Is one practicing macrobiotics when taking supplements?

You're quite right that taking supplements suggests a diet's not whole or complete.

However, the underlying principle behind a macrobiotic lifestyle is balance... which ideally leads to greater awareness and control of the elements in your life to ensure the greatest possible outcome.

Adherence to wholesome dietary guidelines are just one piece of this larger puzzle. There's no doubt that by closely following the emphasis on complete foods that you'll hasten along your path; however, all elements of the individual must be considered before achieving a truly balanced life.

For example, the thought of eating animal flesh pains me and goes against every moral fiber of my being. If I were to consume animal meat, I would be creating a severe mental or psychological imbalance within myself. On the other hand, a supplement would allow me to meet my dietary needs without creating the imbalances caused by going against my ethics.

I believe the founders of macrobiotics had the entire individual in mind, so based on this logic, I have to say that one is still able to practice macrobiotics even when taking supplements.

Of course, I'm still very early into my practice (in its literal sense) of macrobiotics and won't kid myself by saying I grasp the bigger picture yet.

Damon

[Klara]

Damon,

I think you hit on a key that I'm always repeating - it's a journey and we never quite get "there" - which makes the journey more interesting.

I like to qualify always that this is where I am now on the journey - for myself personally I guess swallowing pills of any kind just feels so foreign to me - even those kinds of supplementations that were in vogue for a while - which many would write that they are really foods - actually now while I think about it, I'm not particularly attracted even to foods when I can't tell what they came from. I like being able to identify my food

But the other aspect of being macro is being open, flexible, ready to accept new ideas, ready to grow. With balance always in mind. It doesn't mean everything that comes on one's path one must try in order to prove how flexible they are. We're not here to prove anything, just to learn and see what is good for us, personally.

Bruce, I've only tried natto once and didn't find it that objectionable as I've heard about it. We don't get it ready here, so it would be one more thing I'd have to learn to make - maybe in the future sometime.

btw, Damon just a curious question - which might be easier to change, one's body or one's mental or psychological outlooks? My intuition tells me they go together, body and mind being one - wondering if you're keeping a journal of your observations - and wonder how it will look five years down the line, ten years down the line. Just a thought.

What I appreciated most about Christina's article is how open they were to change. What we need however is to be open before the world hits us with such challenges!!!

Klara

[EllenJ]

Those were really interesting comments, Bruce and Damon.
I eat white fish (I am lucky to live near the sea where it is fresh from the boat) once a week. After some research on this topic I read that if you make your own tempeh (commercial is pasteurised) there should be a lot of B12 in it. So that's my next project when I get back from hols!
Sea veg is supposed to have the potential of lots of B12 but the levels are apparently unreliable, but for sure we are getting some this way too : )