Thyroid supplement

[MJS]

Hi, I'm seeing a naturopath who has got me on a thryoid supplement called Veroxyl, 62.5 micrograms. I'm female, 5'3 and about 110 pounds. I am wondering about the yin or yang nature of this hormone, and what you can tell me about its metabolism in the body, and how to eat to balance it. I know that things like this aren't "kosher" but it's only a temporary thing to get me over chronic fatigue (i have low thyroid levels). I would like to know if there are possible side effects that I should know of. I question my own judgement because I am so suspicious of anything not natural that I feel I may overreact and imagine side effects that aren't really there.
I would like to know if my dr is right when she says "no evidence to show that a macrobiotic diet can increase low thyroid levels." Thank you.

I saw an article that Roy Collins wrote about disproving or disputing the blood type diet, maybe a year ago? I am wondering if someone can direct me to this...Thanks again.

[Roy Collins]

Hi MJS: I don't know anything about Veroxyl as perscribed by your Naturopath but it is more than likely yin to stimulate release of thyroxin from your thyroid gland. It may be what is known in health food jargon as a "glandular" supplement. Excess yin is the cause of a weakened thyroid -- too much sugar, caffeine, tropical fruit, excess liquid, raw foods, fats, white flour products,
fast foods, etc.

Veroxyl is probably an alternative to the commercial drug "Synthroid" used for the same purpose. You may want to invstigate using the sea product called "bladder wrack" which
works just as well and is 100% natural. The use of bladder wrack on a regular bases along with the standard macrobiotic diet would be most effective in my opinion for your problem. You may want to restrict your time on the computer and from watching TV as well.

In addition you can make a simple hot ginger compress and
apply to the thyroid area twice daily for 15 minutes (am/pm).
Getting more negative ions in your body by walking in the woods on by the sea shore will also help.

The blood type diet has nothing to do with macrobiotics. Macrobiotics uses yin/yang model that is applied to LOCAL grown foods in your ENVIRONMENT. Each environment is different so you ned to make adjustments acording to where you live and the seasonal changes. You eat what your environment tells you NOT what someone tells you to do from a book based on one of 4 blood types. Every time you move to a different environment you need to make adjustments.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

edited*****
***Roy -- I am sorry, I just realized that my thyroid med was called Levoxyl, not veroxyl. It IS a commercial synthetic drug, but supposedly the exact equivalent of what is naturally produced in the body. What do you think, should I go with my gut and quit taking it, or listen to my doctor & family and keep on? I felt OK with a 50 mcg dose but the 62.5 just seems too high and I am pretty sure that it is the cause of some heightened anxiety/fear/nervousness I'm feeling.
---------------------
Thanks, that's helpful. Do you think the Levoxyl ould be giving me trouble sleeping? I'm prone to this already, so it's hard to tell. And if it is yin, should I be eating more yang to balance it, if I choose to continue for a while? For the bladderwrack -- I know I make a tea from this -- what are proportions to liquid and how many cups a day should I take?

I think I agree with you on the blood type diet, but it's pushed in my face so much and I have even met a few MB people who think it is fact. (They say MB doesn't "work" for O type, who needs more meat). Thankfully, I'm A so my doc thinks macro works fine for me. I remember seeing last year you posted a 2-part article on this subject? I would really like to read it if it is possible.
Yes, peace please. Pass the whirled peas! >>>MJ

[Roy Collins]

If you are using a commercial synthetic drug you are in effect creating a no win situation as synthetics are not in line with macrobiotic thinking and are symptomatic pallatives at best. The body does not readily absorb and neutralize synthetics as you know. This excess residue will eventually tax the livere and kidneys. The bladder wrack on the other had is 100 % natural and has a similar effect as syntetic thyroid (Synthroid) so you
can use it daily, along with the hot compresses and standard macrobiotic fare.

Bladder wrack is a brown seaweed that is tough when wet and leathery and crisp when dry. It can be ground in with gomassio condiment and used on grains and vegetables. I am not big on pill popping. You can also try roasting it and making a tea from it, but I'm sure it will taste quite strong. You need to experiment and report back your findings to us.

You alone need to make the decision to go against your doctor's advice. This I can not do. You need to get a better grasp on what macrobiotic is and what it is not. The same idea applies to the Blood Type Diet. No matter how many macrobiotics endorse it you still need to weigh all the facts in your heart and see if it fits in with the macrobiotic paradigm. Do you plan to eat meat if you live on the Equator where it is HOT year round and your blood type is one that supposedly requires it? That is not macro thinking. If you have the vegetarian blood type and move to the frozen tundra near the polar caps are you at risk if you eat fish and small game?

Macrobiotics is all about freedom and balance. You can go anywhere you want and find balaance with the environment by eating according to yin/yang principles and local selection and MB preparation of foods. I really don't know what happened to the posts I wrote on the Blood Type Diet. I rarely save anything I write. Maybe someone else who reads this may know how to access that information. Sorry.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

Thank you for your advice. I admit I am only beginning, and I'm easily swayed by other's advice -- I guess I feel like I may not have the experience (I'm 22) to make the best judgements for myself, and I don't have much support for macrobiotics in my family, who I live with right now, or from my doctor. I only know one other macrobiotic person -- a chi kung teacher, although I took cooking classes with an excellent teacher a couple years ago who really got me interested. I haven't always known whether to believe other people when they say that macro is good but "not enough" for my condition. I trust it intuitively though, and am fascinated by it intellectually, and believe absolutely that it has the power to transform lives. Your response helped me make a decision to stand up for what I really believe in and give it my all. Coincidentally I went for a walk today with the question on my mind and found a fortune from a cookie stuck to the sidewalk which said "Stick to those practices you know to be safe and proper." Now who would that make more sense to or be directed at more than me, right now in my life? And how often do you find fortune cookie messages on walk, I don't know.

How much bladderwrack should I take to be roughly replacing the effect of thyroid medication -- on food or in tea? The last time I tried cooking it and eating it , it tasted really gritty, like there were seashells in it.

[Roy Collins]

Who am I to argue with the adice from a fortune cookie! That was really funny. I actually came over to macrobiotics (in the late 1960's) after seeing an ad on a city bus. It was during the hey days of the drug culture and ad consisted of a picture of an open hand with an arrow superimposed over it, pointing to the life-line.

The caption was "This is your life line. If you are not doing anything with your life, it doesn't matter how long it is." The
next day I stopped using drugs and was eating brown rice! Funny, how we are affected by the media.

Good to see that you are beginging to think for yourself. Nearly all of my macrobiotic life has been self-study. I have only attended a few macrobiotic lectures or seminars because I read in one of Ohsawa's books that macrobiotics should NOT be learned from books, but from life.

Regarding the bladderwrack: Yes, it tastes gritty when dried as the air pods on the thallus get very hard when dried. That is
why it is best to grind it first or even try making a tea and
straining out the coarse material. Begin taking about 1 tablespoon of bladderwrack to two cups of water. Boil down
liquid by 1/2. Take warm 1 hour before morning meal and
pm meal (twice daily). You may have to cut the cooked tea with 50% bancha if it is too strong. Experiment and report back
after a few weeks.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

Roy, I hope this doesn't offend you -- but I just read this article and I'm wondering what you think -- as far as what she says about iodine. Is she just a pawn of the pharmaceutical industry? Thanks for your patience.

"Okay, so maybe you're one of those people who actually have hypothyroidism and you are wondering if bladderwrack would be a natural alternative to the thyroid hormone you're currently taking?

The answer is no. Hypothyroidism today is rarely caused by iodine deficiency. All the iodine in the world won't likely correct a poorly functioning thyroid gland, the causes of which have nothing to do with iodine.

And bladderwrack isn't without risk. Prolonged ingestion can cause problems with iron absorption, leading to anemia. It is also very high in salt content which isn't safe for some people. Lastly, some bladderwrack preparations can contain high levels of toxic substances such as arsenic. And remember, herbal preparations aren't highly regulated when it comes to dosage and contaminants.

Christine Traxler MD Contributing Editor, Herbal Medicine
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/6210/47407

[Roy Collins]

No, it doesn't bother me at all. It all depends on who the source is. The most up to date industry standard in medicine is the Merck Manual. Pg. 778: Hypothyrodism: " A chronic lack of iodine in the diet produces an enlarged, underactive thyroid gland (goitrous hypothyroidism), the most common cause ofhypothyroidism in many undeveloped countries."

If you look at Francis Brinker's (ND) "Herb Contradictions and Drug Interactions" (the alternative industry standard) you will read on pg. 25 that Bladderwrack can in fact cause the contraindications of excess thyroid activity "due to high iodine content."

Both of these resources are recent and well documented. But as I stated earlier you need to follow your own heart and intuition and not rely on books. It is just that high amount of salt in Bladderwrack that is the effective component. Boiling it in water or grinding it sesame seeds helpds neutralize the salts. You me the judge, and there really is no need to continue going back and forth with dialog on who is right and who is wrong. Everthyhing seems to be only opinion. No matter how many sources you come up with to negate the claims of bladderwrack on the thyroid there will be just as many to promote it. You, yourself need to make this decision. Remember that you are eating macrobiotic along with using this sea vegetable. In my OPINION you can't go wrong.

I hope this helps.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

I've begun by cutting my dose of levoxyl in half and drinking one cup of tea for a couple days -- I think tomorrow I'll just go with the tea x2. Not too bad! No need to dilute, but then I grew up at the seashore & used to eat seaweed off the beach when I was a little kid.

I was wondering if you think that "good" thyroid levels can vary from person to person -- and what is low for one person could actually be quite high for someone else? Can too-high thyroid causes insensitivity in the form of inattentiveness/hyperactivity - certainly these were my side effects on the higher dosage. So theoretically some people who would function on lower but not abnormal thyroid levels could be very sensitive people, whose sensitivity would be lessened by giving too much thyroid? Can you confirm this reasoning?

And... since no one else is answering my thread, do you know why the heaven-is-yin/earth-yang is reversed in Chinese medicine? I know you're quite a scholar, that is why I ask. Thank you! (These forums seem very quiet -- are they usually like this?) MJS ....very excited -- I just ordered my first vegetable press!

[Roy Collins]

Sounds like a good plan to me, to cut the drug in half and begin using the tea form of bladderwrack. You can probably just add
a tablespoon of ground up bladderwrack to a pot of kukicha tea and cook the tea as usual for ten minutes, then strain into a
cup. Roasted brown rice would work just as well as the kukicha.

Thanks for reporting back with the flavor. This information is helpful. A small amount of bruised, fresh parsley in the tea mix might also help with flavor and aid in the treatment process of hypothyroid. I think that body chemistry (hormone levels, blood-sugar levels, serrotonin levels, etc.) vary daily with all individuals and differ in quality according to inheritance and genetic traits.

It is just these and other chemicals that make for the difference in yinness and yangness in the individual. It is not just one thing, but many factors both internal and external. In turn the body becomes more active or less active, and brain function more and less, etc. However I do think that there is in GENERAL a "low" level of thyroid hormones and a "high" that can be acurately detected by tests, and that some people because of their constitution tolerate highs and lows better than others.

A more yin or "sensitive" person in my opinion should have more difficulty dealing with hypothyroid as their overalll qi level is weaker. But a more yang person should be able to handle the fatigue and other symptoms of weakness with less difficulty for a longer period of time. Yes.

HYPERTHYROID on the other hand produces a higher degree of nervouness and irritability and results in an overactive metabolism (from too much hormone). That is because too much yin hormone is being released. So yes, you are correct to say that excess thyroid hormone makes one hyperactive. When this occurs persons need to avoid yin stimulants altogether (sugar, coffee, nicotine, soft drinks, etc.) The iron in cooked, dark green veggies helps to supress excessive thyroid hormone.

As I have quite a lot on my plate lately, in terms of work and personal project I try to read and reply only to the forum that I moderate, so I try not to get involved with what other people as saying on other forums at this time.

I recently wrote a book called Fire Over Heaven that deals with the topic of yin/yang, the I Ching and the term Heaven (T'ien inj Chinese). Bill Neall wrote an article about my findings which can be accessed in the article section of this website. I think it is called Original Yin and Yang whose idea was developed by Fu Xi during China's neolithic times and which runs parellel to our macrobiotic ideas on yin/yang. It was changed after 1500 years of use by King Wen just afterr the fall of the Shang Dynasty when the I Ching was revised and yin/yang rearranged. I think you can still purchase copies from the publisher at Xlibris.com or at Amazon.com.

In this book I show which Chinese philosophers used the yang to designate heaven and which ones used yin to desginate heaven. The controversey continues until today. You are kind to say that I am a scholar, but on the contrary I am an artist with with a good imagination and ability to see the first the big picture and then details upon which the big picture is made. It doesn't take much brain power...

I wish I can answer more of your questions at a faster pace but lately have been overwhelmed with work.

I hope this helps. By the way would you please use your first name in order to make it easier for me to address you.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

Roy, my name is Mara. Sorry for the anonymous-name thing. You might remember me from a year or so ago, when I asked for some help with insomnia. (Turned into a mess of issues in my body & mind & I've had a real epic of a healing journey, maybe too complicated for me to explain here. It is thankfully coming to an end, just in time for spring & what a bright & fresh new world I'm seeing!)

I'm honored you take the time from your life to answer my questions with so much detail. I'm really interested in this stuff! You are helpful and kind and I would definitely like to read your book. I'll keep in touch.
Mara Jean

[Roy Collins]

Hi Mara. OK, I remember you now. Sorry for your long healing journey. Seems like the vast majority of people come to macrobiotic because of illness issues. Why does someone need macrobiotic if they are not sick? George Ohsawa's first macrobiotic center was called Center for the Ignoramus. Their motto was "non credo" (do not believe). You are a model student and doing a great job with your line of questioning. That is the only way to learn.

Keep asking questions here and at other sites. Weigh what people say and what you read in books. Then put it to the test to see if it works and how REAL it becomes for you. Wisdom is gained from experience through time and interaction. Even the so-called authorities are sometimes way off base, as proven by the medical herbalist you sited whose OPINION was far off from what modern medical science knows to be true (after dozens of years of testing and observation).

I'm sorry I don't have much time on my hands anymore but will do what I can whnever I can find the time to help you and any others whose plight is genuine. Keep studying and watching the course of NAture as the season's change. No one has all the answers.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

Originally posted by Roy Collins
Why does someone need macrobiotic if they are not sick?

Maybe, if unhappy or de-sensitized or too sensitive to life without realizing it? But then I guess this is one of the levels of illness too. It just seems like almost everyone has some kind of problem that learning about macrobiotics could help. Plus, it is really interesting! And, IMO, a good way to get a grip on life, put things in order, learn about human history, & find a place for one's self.

Quick question: the only bladderwrack I can find now is in a powder form -- I had been using a coarsely processed kind -- and I need to know if the dosage is the same.

Q.#2: Do you know often someone with a yin (chronic fatigue) condition should take a tea made from Lycium Berry (fructus lycii)(korean kukicha)?
Thank you, again! Mara Jean

[Roy Collins]

Hi Mara.

Hi Mara. True health means no unhappiness, no desensitivity or over sensitivity, nor physical or mental disease. You are right this is rare in modern society among people. However, among wild animals and "lower" creatures, macrobiotic is commonplace. You see they are eating according to season, environmental availability and according to
evolution and ability. We you try to look though the eyes of the wilderness you can
get a glimpse of this primitive vision.

The main difference between us and lower animal
forms is that we have the ability of making greater changes. They have more limitations,
like not being able to make fire to cook, or heat with, or make clothing or efficient shelters to protect them, etc.

Our choices appear to be limitless. It therefore doesn’t make
much sense to me when someone says “I can’t”, because of all the options we have
at hand. We can change where we live, change our clothes, out weight, our attitudes and outlooks, our religions, our hair, eating and cooking habits, lifestyles…

Regarding the bladderwrak, you can use the powder from the same way as the other. I
Would mix it with bancha or kukicha and add a small amount of chopped parsley and
Bring to a boil, then simmer ten minutes. I think this would work well and taste better than plain boiled seaweed.

Regarding the CFS and the fruit of lychee. I think maybe too yin so better to use burdock root, dandelion root, or reishi mushroom tea. Pau d'arco and astragulus root would also be helpful. Many of our disorders stem from a weak immune system. Astragulus helps to strengthen the immune system.

I hope this helps.

In peace, Roy

[MJS]

You are like having my own personal teacher! I was sorely missing a like-thinking mind to talk to, without realizing it.
The bladderwrack tea in the PM makes it difficult for me to fall asleep -- should I double my dose in the morning -- if that would not be too much at once--, or take in the early afternoon?
This should be the end of my questions for a while. Thank you!
Mara Jean