Macrobiotics + Cigarettes?

[Roy Collins]

Greetings. I am trying to locate information written
by George Ohsawa that justifies cigarette smoking.
If you can help me with this please give me exact
quotes and page number and title/date from where
the quote came from.

I am working on an article and
trying to start an anti-smoking campaign that may
help save lives and the environment. Nicotine is a
drug from the nightshade family that emits nearly 3,000
chemicals into the environment.

It has been a known
carcinogen for 400 years and tobacco plants are one of
the most heavily sprayed with deadly pesticides, herbicides,
and preservatives. Sugar is one of over 500 additives
in cigarette tobacco.

The DDT and Arsenate of Lead once
used on tobacco remains in the soil and will never leave.
These two chemicals are resonsible for the death of thousands
of plant and animal species. When one endorses cigarettes
they are, in my opinion, endorsing wholesale death of
people, animals, plants, and earth. Innocent childern, maybe
your own are being poisoned by second hand smoke -- organic
tobacco or not.

Please share with me your findings. Also any Kushi sources
as well. Thanks you in advance.

In peace, Roy

[umeshoyu]

I have heard that Ohsawa had reccomended smoking for some conditions, but I have no written sources.

How do you know smoking is bad? I believe the only way to truly know something is to experience it first hand. In my experience, there are many things that are more harmful and destructive, even in small doses, than cigarettes.

I think, some people get heavily influenced by propoganda, and are blinded to the truth of independant experience.

My own conclusions about smoking are incomplete. I'll be sure to let you know once they are!

Furthermore, I've noticed that whatever becomes trendy in society is something to be very wary of. For example, toasted bagels, tuna, and chicken. These trendy things are the worst foods for health. On the other end of the coin, the thing that people make the biggest stink over must be relatively harmless compared to the excepted normal foods and such.

After all, what the majority believes is ussually the opposite of the truth. Why? Because the majority always have the lowest judgement. If they did not have the lowest judgement, then they would not be the majority!
A smoker knows now days, that, he/she is quickly becoming the most persecuted minority! Why? Because people are becoming more and more sensitive. They think that their sensitivity is a cause to ban or isolate smokers. Not only that, but, a smoker knows that anyone and everyone can tell you not to smoke, but try telling someone not to eat meat, or dairy. No-way! That would not be okay even though, statistically, there are far less "smoking related" ilnesses in Japan even though they smoke more than the US. Why? Because of diet. A less fatty diet is the reason for that, simply.

Well anyway, don't mean to be a stick in the mud.
Thanks,

[mistry]

Roy

Are you familiar with this book?

Smoking, Marijuana & Drugs

Author: Herman Aihara, George Ohsawa, Cris Briggs (Illustrator)
Format: Hardcover
Published: July 1973
ISBN: 0918860199
List Price: $1.50

http://www.allbookstores.com/book/0918860199

~Mistry/(Brenda)

[mistry]

Roy
Here is a controversial article referring to Ohsawa and his smoking:

"Macrobiotics was founded by Yukikazu Sakurazawa (1893-1966)-better known as George Ohsawa. His first book in English, Zen Macrobiotics, was published in mimeographed form in 1960. Macrobiotic insider Ronald Kotzsch, Ph.D., who wrote Macrobiotics: Yesterday and Today, portrays Ohsawa as a quixotic Japanese nationalist who, while preaching the "Unique Principle" of yin and yang, smoked heavily and occasionally enjoyed cheesecake, doughnuts, Coca-Cola, coffee, Guinness Stout, and Scotch whiskey. In Kotzsch's words, "Ohsawa was a man who for forty years taught about health with a cigarette in his hand."

http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...ics/kushi.html

(".....although macrobiotic eating might improve the health of many American adults-it presents significant and unnecessary risks of nutritional deficiency. Nutrient supplementation, lab tests, and consultations with a qualified nutrition professional could minimize this risk. But macrobiotic philosophy discourages such safeguards.")

[Ishi]

From what I've heard, read, and learned, cigarettes can be smoked to a positive affect if the physical state of health of an individual is good. Most definitely I've heard that dairy and smoking should not be mixed, because it causes lung cancer.

..sorry to be repeating facts, if everyone already knows this, but I'm not sure about how far in learning everyone in this forum has gone.

[zstein]

Hi Roy,

This may be a little know fact but a lot of macro's smoke. Why? I cannot tell yah why. The theory is because they consume so much yang (salty) foods that smoking creates balance (expanding fire energy).

This goes equal with coffee and alcohol consumption.

The other threory is that Michio Kushi smokes. Yes you heard it here and a lot of macro's fellow the leader if you will.

When asked point blank to smoking macro teachers about their smoking, they said that smoking does not effect them because they do not eat dairy (mentioned in above postings) or sticky mucus forming foods (oatmeal or creamy foods...).

"Then why are you coughing thoughtout the entire lecture"...I think...

I am not sure about the sticky issue but I imagine that if I asked these smoking macro's to go on a run with me for a few miles...they would be huffing and puffing the whole way....brown rice or not.

"Macro or not....Just say no dudes"

Z

[Bruce Paine]

zstein,

Addressing Roy (Collins), here, may produce no response, as he left some time ago with the stated intent not to return.

If you really want to get his response to your inqiry, I suggest you send him an e-mail which you can do by clicking on a person's name where underlined on the browser.


About smoking, while I am sure that there might still be a few smoking teachers and smoking students of macrobiotics, my guesss is that their numbers are diminishing either by waking up to the need to change or by their demise.

I, for one, quit cold turkey in 1987 and gained around 100 pounds over a 10 year period, almost half of which I have lost since, I've focused my attention on eating more strictly macrobiotically.

I feel and believe that a gradual quitting, though difficult to do, would have been followed by less of a radical weight gain.

I did not come into macrobiotics by switching from the standard American fare but through years of experimenting with different foods and a gradual change of my diet, so why should I have quit "cold turkey"?

I'll tell you why I quit "cold turkey".

I was living in a group situation where 50 or more men were sleepng in one very large room, and many of them were smoking throughout the night on the periphery, and one could see the layers of second hand smoke floating above one's head and it was hard to breathe and therefore sleep and it made me so angry that I could not stop them from exposing me to so much smoke that I determined to stop smoking (since then, a friend of mine went to court and forced that organization to abolish smoking inside that building).

Yes, it is true that eating some kinds of strict macrobiotic diets can be so cleansing that for individuals not needing to heal themselves may be able to do things to themselves not recommended by macrobiotics like smoking, or endulge in extreme foods like meat and sugar, with possibly little immediate ill effect, but it is really not recommended for the rest of us who are just trying to heal ourselves and live a good healthy life.

Good for you, that you are in such good shape that you can run several miles.

I imagine that most longtime macros get their exercise from cooking, organizing and cleaning their living situation.

Maybe some are into additional exercise like yoga or martial arts.


I work outside (and also inside) most non-precipitous weekdays, and recently have carried many large containers of heavy things moving from one location to the next and also helping a friend move tons of stuff.

I don't feel like smoking, nor do I miss it.

My guess is that most macros don't smoke and it is not that big an issue among the movement.

If Michio and otrhers continue to smoke, that is their life, and we can just tell them to take it outside when they visit our places.

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[Nancy]

Z,

Yes, Michio smokes, last I heard, and Michio is getting up in years. On the West Coast, or among any of the macrobiotic aquaintances I know of, very few smoke, drink coffee, or alcohol. Yet good organic brands of beer and wine are allowable on the macrobiotic diet. People who have difficulty with these freedoms, do not seem well versed in the tools of yin and yang. Thus if they were to indulge, they would not know how to balance it. In the case of Michio, I believe he began smoking when smoking was promoted (even in the movies) in advertising, and a well accepted part of life. Soldiers were given packs and packs of cigarettes while enlisted.

Gradually the dangers of smoking became more and more apparent, and recently smokers have become more ostracized in many environments. Smokers have to leave the restaurant entirely and smoke outside. No more "smoking sections".

Second hand smoke is quite deadly and quite unfair. A child in the home of heavy smokers can get cancer from second hand smoke. Happened to someone I knew.

When smoking is an entrenched lifetime habit, there are those who will not be able to quit and those who will not have the desire to quit. No one in macrobiotics promotes smoking. If so, I would like to see the evidence.

It would be ideal to have all macro teachers exemplify a perfect macrobiotic lifestyle. I agree that a huffing and puffing and coughing macrobiotic teacher is not a very good role model for whereof he speaks. All should take seriously their responsibility as a role model. I think we have to chalk up these lapses as human imperfection and weakness.

We all can relate to that.

Nancy

[karnul]

I see it as a matter of personal choice.
At the end, everyone's practice is different. Everyone does what works for them.
Coming from a certain condition, I know that I can never balance out smoking, so I don't go there. But I believe that people who want to smoke, an find a way to balance it out.
I personally haven't seen any MB teahcers who smoke that coughed throught a lecture, but I have seen a long term MB practitioner taking a cigarette after running 25 kilometers.
That is not to justify anyone, especially not the tobacco industry, but I do believe that there are far more critical problems for the MB community to deal with than tobacco, such as genetic engineering, extreme use of pesticides, abusing lands in developing countries - all the things that endanger the very basic things that sustain us and nurture us - organic grains and veggies...

Karny

[umeshoyu]

I agree. Hail to freedom!

---ignorant

[moxiesurf]

Brenda/Mistry,
I just came across the site and registered as a new poster.
I'm interested in the book that you mentioned by Aihara and Ohsawa but the link no longer shows the book as available. I can't find it anywhere. Do you know where I could find the book? I'm particularly interested in what they have to say about marijuana use and health. It's an illegal drug that is also incredibly easy to produce/grow. One can use marijuana without involvement in the negative things like violence, pesticides, abuse of lands, etc. I am wondering about this because I think it's use can be beneficial for a healthy person who doesn't have an addiction. I'd appreciate your help in finding this book or any other similar information.

[Bruce Paine]

Moxiesurf,

Welcome to Cybermacro!

Cyber: a prefix which derives from cybernetics; used to denote topics related to computers and/or networks

and

macro(biotics): n : the theory of promoting health and longevity by means of diet (especially whole grains, temperate climate vegetables, legumes, sea vegetables, nuts/seeds, some fermented foods, some fish and fruit, etc.) while practicing a philosophy that focuses on balancing yin and yang in all aspects of one's daily life.

So, now that you know that this is a macrobiotic discussion site, please explain to me what yin or yang product or activity is equivalent to marijuana injestion.

Is marijuana (Cannibus Sativa) considered to be yin or yang to most practitioners of macrobiotics and how much?

Is it more yin or yang than rice?

is it more yin or yang than fruit?

Is it more yin or yang than a white wine?

Is marijuana a food and if not how long would it take consuming just it to get you extremely yin or yang, and very sick?

The point is that marijana is not a balanced substance like organic short grain brown rice, and if you don't know if it is yin or yang or how much, then you might just be playing a fool's game, and we are not fooling around, here!

<-yin----------------------------------------------------------------------yang->

Draw a line from left to right and write the words: whole grains, vegetables, fish, fruit, meat, sugar, salt, drugs, alcohol, all above that line in the order that you think they are seen by most macrobiotic people, and then maybe you'll get a clue to what I'm talking about.

Check out Yogen Kushi's article on Yin and Yang http://www.worldmacro.org/newsletter...ckissues01.htm for more information!

By the way, Smoking, Marijuana & Drugs is available at http://www.bookfinder.com/ but not for $1.50!

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[moxiesurf]

Bruce,
Thanks for the information aboout the book. Although your post did come across as if you think I'm a fool. I'm very familiar with macrobiotics and I also know the meaning of the word cyber. And yes, I know that marijuana is extremely yin. I also consider tobacco to be very yin and I know that Kushi smokes cigarettes and this is the topic that you were discussing in this thread. I'm also aware of the dangers to the kidneys and liver after long term use. I was curious about Kushi's justification for smoking and what they had to say about marijuana. It's my belief that occasional use of yin or yang food/products are okay for a healthy individual. Sure, we can't consume a lot of salt without getting sick really fast, but we use it everyday. I know our bodies don't need marijuana, or coffee, or tea. I personally know world class athletes who have improved their concentration and performance from marijuana use. But no, these athletes aren't macrobiotic.

[Bruce Paine]

moxiesurf,

I feel that it is foolish to be experimenting with drugs especially when trying to follow a simple macrobiotic diet, because drugs like marijuana is so yin that it is too hard to make it balance with our food, activity, and lifestyle.

So if one is going to fool around with marijuana they shouldn't expect any help from experienced macrobiotic practicioners to aid them in pursuing that unbalanced lifestyle.


Regarding world class athletes such as professional basketball players using marijuana, I imagine that included with healthier version of a S.A.D. and combined with the very yangizing factor of regular strenuous workouts, ocassional pot smoking might not be detrimental as long as they are able to stay disciplined and focused.

The danger is if they then think that because they can smoke pot that they can use heavier substances such as cocaine which contributed to the deaths of famous atheletes such as Len Bias, and possibly Reggie Lewis, and to the downfall of many other famous athletes.


Regarding salt use, it is my understanding that seasalt being water soluable (not too yang), if used lightly in a macrobiotic diet, does not cause trouble for most individuals as it can easily leave the system wth urination or sweat, but the refined salt (too yang), used in conjunction with a S.A.D. is almost always in some way, detrimental because it can get trapped in the muscle tissues, is difficult to eliminate, and contributes to various problems including water retention.



Though it is true that marijuana is extremely yin, cigarette tobacco is only yin if it is sweetened with added sugar and/or smoked with the lit end lower than the end through which one is inhaling the smoke.

Also, if one is limiting the consumption of animal fats especially dairy, chemicals, and simple sugars from one's diet plus eating good quality fermented foods such as miso, shoyu, tamari, pickles, and umeboshi, plus sea vegetables and of course whole grains like organic brown rice at the center of their diet, then they'll probably be discharging toxins so effectively from their body that the inclusion of a habit like cigarette smoking might not cause the same kind of negative effects to themselves that persons who follow a diet similar to a S.A.D. (Standard American Diet).

So persons like Michio Kushi (born in 1926) might easily live past their eightieth birthday and stay relatively healthy eating macrobiotically, while smoking cigarettes.

I once asked Michio (in 1987) why he smoked cigarettes and he replied "Because I enjoy it!".

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[moxiesurf]

Bruce,
As far as athletes are concerned, I was thinking about American world class skiiers and snowboarders who are very healthy and train, but no where near the extent that their competitors in Europe or professional basketball players do. The lifestyle of the sport is different; it's less hectic and takes place outdoors in rural areas. Marijuana can be used for focus and contemplation in sports or other pursuits. I don't think marijuana needs to be addictive or lead to other drugs. I don't believe that marijuana, or alcohol, or other substances are the cause of addictive behavior.

While I believe in the need for macrobiotics in our modern lifestyle, I don't think it is a solution to problems that humans have encountered thoughout history. From my religious standpoint, the problem is the fall of man, our alienation from God and need to maintain our egotistic will. Marijuana use can bring to the surface and sometimes exacerbate problems with the ego, while at the same time allowing a clearer understanding of these problems so that they can be dealt with sooner. I don't think that is a foolish use of marijuana; in fact I think it can be very beneficial to ourselves and relationships with others.

I am quite sure that a healthy person who follows a macrobiotic diet can also smoke marijauna occasionally simply because they "enjoy it". I don't think it necessarily contributes to an unbalanced lifestyle but rather, one less rigid.