oil or not

I just read Christina Pirello's new article on her drastic experience with b12 deficiency (seems to have caused an aneurysm (spelling?), also not absorbing vitamins because of lack of fat (oils) in her diet, and her husband's osteoporosis seemingly caused by lack of oils/animal protein (he's a long distance runner). It's pretty sobering stuff. The b12 issue is one many have been aware of for a while, but the problems stemming from lack of oil may be not so well known. I've been doing a really low oil routine but am really wondering if this is healthy. I'm curious what others think. How much is too much? How little is too little? Don't we need a bit of oil to absorb vitamins and minerals in veggies, and for other reasons? Thanks.

[wallermc]

where did you find the article?

i am experiencing the problem of restricting fat/oil in my practice, and my acupuncturist recentlylet me know i was very deficient in B-vitamins so i am taking a B-complex supplement. i can tell i am weak, extremely cold and getting too yang. i am interested to read the article...

Here is the link to the article. I also have recently gotten WAY too yang on a healing macro diet. I did, however, see my symptoms start to disappear around the time I clearly became that way. She says it's okay to add oil, and, having added some oil, I immediately started to feel better. The trick is to know how much too add, as I'm not sure how much is too much.

New Article : My Vitamin B12 Dilemma
by Christina Pirello Read online at http://www.macrobiotics.co.uk/b12dilemma.htm

Sorry: I meant that the symptoms for which I started the diet actually started to go away around the time I developed new symptoms from being too "yang."

[Klara]

Christina's article was quite an eye-opener!!! Thank you so much for passing that on. I didn't get a clear picture of exactly how much B-12 is needed, and what are all the options, their advantages and disadvantages. I always thought so little was needed and if I've eaten any kind of meat (or eggs, or fish, or dairy) in the last upteenth years, it would suffice. Also she mentioned something of it being inherited??? And most importantly, how does her overactive schedule fit in with B-12??? I'd love to have more info - are there more articles on this topic?

As for oil, did you ever get your answer as to how much? Somehow I recall learning 1 - 2 Tablespoons a day is sufficient - again, need to look at individual conditions of course, but does that sound reasonable??

Klara

I think the answer for me is that I need a lot more oil, but there appears to be a very yang underlying condition that I was not in tune with. I'm not sure what this translates into per day for "most" people, and feeling quite confused, as I'm sure it's correct to take oil, but I'm afraid of interfering with the healing process. In Chinese medicine it is definitely thought that oil is necessary to health, especially needed to absorb fat soluble vitamins and other nutrients. I believe I read in one of Anne Marie Colbin's books that people (healthy??) need about 2 tsp per day, but who knows what the correct amount is for any particular individual? I wish I had an answer, hopefully will find one soon.

Also, in one of Herman Aihara's books he says "2-3 teaspoons per day for people in general" and "1 teaspoon per day" for people with cancer! He notes that some other macrobiotic people think no oil for people with cancer, but he disagrees. In Paul Pitchford's book he recommends small amounts of flax or borage/evening primrose oil for people with cancer, possibly a few almonds, but very little fat in general. It's really quite confusing.

one more thing: I don't have cancer or a life threatening condition, but was using the "cancer" guidelines as a general rule for people with illness or degenerative conditions.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just read Christina Pirello's new article on her drastic experience with b12 deficiency (seems to have caused an aneurysm (spelling?), also not absorbing vitamins because of lack of fat (oils) in her diet, and her husband's osteoporosis seemingly caused by lack of oils/animal protein (he's a long distance runner). It's pretty sobering stuff. The b12 issue is one many have been aware of for a while, but the problems stemming from lack of oil may be not so well known. I've been doing a really low oil routine but am really wondering if this is healthy. I'm curious what others think. How much is too much? How little is too little? Don't we need a bit of oil to absorb vitamins and minerals in veggies, and for other reasons? Thanks.

This is just my opinion. Anyone who is vegan will need to take a b-12 supplement. Otherwise, over time, there will be a problem.

Here is another possible problem for Macro people as concerns b-12 deficiencies:

http://www.rense.com/health/spirulinax.htm

Hope this is helpful otherwise please have mercy on the messenger. :-)

Thanks.

[omphale]

options for b-12 and b vitamins I beleive include tempeh, natto, dark barley miso, organic shoyu and tamari, and maybe sea veggies, I'm not quite sure about the last one. It is ok to have a egg once in a while or fish, but one can get good nutrition from the above mentioned items. oil is very yin and therefore should be consumed with regard to ones condition. I beleive most of us need oil, but maybe just on item a day cooked in sucha way. I had been making marinated tempeh and lightly pan frying thin slices, but decided I was eating too much oil that way and began to put them in a casserole dish and put in the oven for a few minute to heat through and dry out the marinade a bit. It is important to not overcook the tempeh or any fermented product, because of the beneficial bacteria they contain.
a concern for messing up a healing diet was mentioned and I want to say that unless you are "terminal" or critically ill such as cancer, I think moderation and a strong understanding of your personal condition will lead you in the right direction. Know what yin or yang energies foods and other things and activities have and what effect they will have on your body. once you have eliminated the non-macro diet, it becomes a matter of careful experimentation within an understanding of what are quality, healthful foods. Don't be afraid, you are already healing by choosing to eat from the right kinds of foods. Your body will tell you what it needs for health.

Thanks for that last bit of information, though read Pirello's article, which contradicts the thinking you present on b12 in plant foods (the link is above). I really suspect she is right--no b 12 in any foods but animal, unfortunately. If this is the case, I will have to take a supplement soon, as I'm eating very little fish. As for the amount of oil you suggest, can you tell me where I might find some writing on this? I think you are right, though perhaps for some a bit more oil is necessary. Also, regarding the intuitive movement towards health that comes with the change of diet, this is what i'm hoping for, but dont' feel, at 11 weeks in, that I'm there yet. Still thanks for the supportive info.

oops--i was wrong. Annemarie colbin recommends 2-3 TABLEspoons, not teaspoons, for people whose diets include little to non animal fats. It's 1-2 tablespoons if you're eating animal fat. This is quite a bit more than traditional macros recommend.