deaths in the sixties

i read somewhere that there were a few deaths in the sixties related to a switch to the macrobiotic diet but because it was improperly done, these individuals died. does anyone have any more information on this topic?

how does one die from this diet, considering how much horrid things people are putting down thier throats these days... and can it be a lesson to how we should caution how we use this diet?

-very curious

[Manymoons]

Curious Guest

I started with this food in the 60s and knew of people who died and many that did more self harm than good. All situations involved the indulgence of sudden extremes of yin and yang. A common rationalization consisted of eating a very yang diet during the week and then "balancing" this with alcohol or recreational drugs, as an example, on the week end. This proved for many to be dangerous if not fatal.

The essence and nature of this food demands that a slow consistent approach be maintained at all times. Eating a broad yin/yang diet then suddenly narrowing the balance is a shock and strain on the body and the spirit. Time need be granted to allow this transition or the body will rebel to the point of shutting down. One does not run a marathon if all previous exercise consisted of walking to the pizza oven and back to the easy chair in front of the television.

Each of us has a unique balance. It takes time to adjust to changes that we are not accustomed to. A new balance may even feel alien and be interpreted as being wrong, thereby inducing a reactive move that initiates an upheaval that further pushes us into and an even more chaotic balance. When this happens it becomes almost impossible to deal with and many people reject the diet completely or take extreme food to kill this "pain".

A big mistake many people make is to expect this diet to give them something or make them feel something in particular. I have found this is not the case. This food tends to be very neutral and imposes little yin/yang on you. This is the beauty of it however. One is allowed to feel ones own reality without mask or cover up -- not always pretty as this leads to a self reflecting spiral and a deeper way to grow. It is at this point of self reflection that most people fold because they come to it faster than they are able to deal with it.

This food will not heal beyond a person's capacity to be healed, but can open one to see where one needs to heal. This food will allow healing that a more extreme balance will not. The real healing is a matter of spiritual growth. What the spirit accomplishes, this food will match without imposing it own nature as most contemporary diet does. There is no "comfort" food here but this food can help one feel comfortable if a standard of spirit comfort has been achieved.

Based on my own experience I recommend to go slowly and be open to what may be revealed. This food can strip way things that we have been "hiding" behind. It takes time to walk on our own two feet and live life from our own real core of being without masks for self protection.

There is a price to be paid for everything. This food requires our own effort and sincerity. I can say that it is a worthy investment.

Manymoons

Thanks for the response Manymoons, but perhaps you can be more exact. What do you mean by a very "yang" diet - that they were consuming mainly meat? or heavy amounts of grains? it's just unusual that this caused a problem because many people in the general population indulge in meat & then alcohol/drugs in cycles and no spotlight has been shed on their diets.

Was the macrobiotic diet unfairly blamed - could there have been other factors, or is this something really delicate about this diet that needs to be mastered carefully to be sucessful?

I'm worried simply because I'm entering this diet without any guidance or any support from my peers or family. I'm trying to figure it out on my own and have been making some blunders and found some really surprising changes in my mood. It's not that I do alcohol or drugs, I'm just surprised at how much my intake of food can affect me and I want to get an idea of what I'm dealing with, what's worked in the past, and where other people have found problems.

Also, do you think these individuals were intentionally abusing the system, because the extremity of yang/yin doesnt seem to make much sense as a workable theory... or was it just they were misinformed? and do you have any details on what they died of?

I've also had a LOT of trouble sleeping lately. Is this normal for a beginner?

Thanks for all of your help and advice.
-Curious

[Manymoons]

Curious Guest

Please understand that what I say is my own opinion rooted in my own experiences. This food is the single most precious thing that I possess and it has served me well. I take it very seriously because I have discovered how powerful it can be.

Each of us is a certain balance of yin/yang, as is everything. Not all balances are the the same- some stronger -others weaker. Eating foods that are of smaller yin/yang, such as much of the macrobiotic diet, may not be adequate to compensate for a person's own particular balance - imbalance. Eating a broad diet will more likely cover all of the bases, but then one's own yin/yang may be synthetically fortified. The goal is to have and contain one's own yin/yang to be full as an individual person, not just a reflection of the yin/yang that we eat.

Few if any of us are complete. This food strips away the false yin/yang imposed by conventional western food and thereby strips away the associated "cover-up". Here is the danger as well as the advantage. We get to experience our true balance and then with open, sincere effort work to correct it, or avoid the pain of seeing our limitations by continueing to over-ride the imbalance and compensate with big yin/yang foods.

Big yin/yang food will "do" it for us--at least for a while. Eventually we must find our own yin/yang. Macrobiotic foods will not give us our yin/yang but will fortify us when we do find it. The "other" food gives only what it is and not necessarily what each of us really is.

People I have known have died of organ failures (ex. kidney} as well as cancer and simple starvation. Each of these that I have known created great upheaval in themselves by fluctuating between extremes--great contraction to great expansion and back again - and again - and again. This does not and will not work. I know of no-one capable of that kind of transmutation. I have lived on nothing but brown rice for over six weeks at a time but not without months of preparation. It was not a sudden move! The experience was a spiritual boot camp to say the least.

When I started this diet, food needed to be dry and brown in order to be "macrobiotic". It appears things have improved since. There are some really well spirited receipts on this list. It is a delight to see that kind of spirit and creativity.

To heal the body requires also healing the spirit. Consider your foods carefully and also your thoughts and attitudes. Honesty, honor, virtue, respect and diligence, as well as food contribute to being a full, complete human person.

Love yourself and this food will love you. Hate yourself and this food will hate you. Go slowly and consistently to best see what you are and what this food is doing. The food will not take you anywhere you can not go on your own. It will however help illuminate what you are capable or incapable of being, and then fortify it. Careful cautious honest effort well not be wasted.

Humor can be dry--not your food.

A zen riddle:

If a man falls in the forest and there is no woman to witness it, is he still wrong? Consider the yin/yang of this!

Eat well and live full!

Manymoons

[Klara]

Oh wise manymoons,

How so moved I am by your post. To all the newbies reading it, just take it on faith, don't try to analyze or disprove his words, enter this magical adventure, and if you're lucky, look for someone like manymoons who can gently help guide you. Any way I can lure you to come live next door to me???

To be completely honest, I don't think I understand either - but it's very clear to me that this is the path I want. For the newbies, (I'm beginning to think I might be one!) understanding balance, yin/yang, how to make food part of it all really doesn't come overnight. I appreciate so much manymoons your advise to go slow. My impatience with myself is something I realize I will happily part with, and yes, I guess it will be a slow parting.

I heard a different version of the male/female riddle, he didn't fall, he, I believe, opened his mouth. I think the progress I am making is I can be in that forest by myself - and whatever I do still "can be heard" by me and wrong??? slowly slowly is leaving my vocabulary. But I still smile at the joke.

Your post is inspiring. I thank you for it.

Klara

Thanks for the response.

I see what you're saying Manymoons, I believe. I don't doubt that it's important for everyone to understand thier own balance. I think that's where Macrobiotics is esp. unique.. in that, it doesn't write down a formula for you but gives you rough guidelines and let's you learn about your body to make the process most effective.

This makes sense. We are after all, physically different (emotionally + spiritually). However, for a beginner I think it's important to learn from others who have already been there - that's why I'm particularly curious about the details of the deaths. A beginner doesn't always know what s/he is looking for. Esp. without guidance from an expert.

I wish there was more danger about the nature of people's experiences, but it seems like it will take more time before macrobiotics develops to this phase. Right now, I have a shaky understanding but I suppose I will learn by trial/error.

Yet I don't think things should be taken in by faith alone. There are many other paths that promised equally good results that are drastically different. For instance, the raw diet? fruitartianism? veganism? Many of these seem out of loop with Macrobiotics and yet they claim incredible results.

It's a little strange to me that the Macro diet has a bad name according to some - due to the cancerous deaths of some of its leaders and the difficulty at understanding the yin/yang balance.

I'm very enthusiatic to try it myself and see what its like. Congratulations on the six weeks of brown rice. Seems impressive. Good luck to you too Klara.

- Curious

i noticed in my last message i wrote

"I wish there was more danger about the nature of people's experiences"

Hahaha... not "danger" but "information"

(??)

[Klara]

I stopped for a minute or two at the "danger" and thought, that's good in a twisted way. Good in that I understand very much your desire (and mine) to have things much clearer, and RIGHT NOW. I'm trying to pass on some info to friends, in that to me I see clearly what they need (my how arrogant!!!) yet they are not ready to take it in. Then it's more clear to me - one's condition is not yet ready - perhaps. My understanding, somewhat, if someone is very yang, or stubborn, or strong willed, or aggressive, alot of this info will not sink in until that person yinnizes a little and becomes more flexible, more open. The other way, someone goes with all the paths, listens to all the different kinds of "doctors" out there, one day does this, one day does that, that is very yin, and that person needs to focus more, to be yangized more. But of course the problem is we're neither one or the other, or rather we're some of this and some of that, nor do we stay the same all the time. Yes, the challenge of yin/yang is big!!!!

As for other people's experiences, there has been much written on the net (look at old forums, and also other sites, but be careful, it can be overwhelming!!!), there are some wonderful mb biographies out there published which you may find in libraries, used book stores or again look at the store in this forum, but what I think is the strongest way for someone new (or for everyone) is to have a wise person nearby who can see what you can't see, and help lead you. It still saddens me that money is such a big issue - wish there was a solution to that. Perhaps mb can one day be totally recognized in the official world, and then the insurances can cover - but that's a whole other difficulty, won't touch that now. These forums are truly a pleasure, but sadly limiting. We are still a big world, and still the best is sharing with others in person. See Curious, who you can find that lives close by. Check out the bulletin boards in your closest health food store, or post one yourself. If you start looking, you will find!!! Hopefully a very very wise and wonderful mb friend and teacher.

Klara

[Manymoons]

Curious Guest

Take nothing on faith! That would be very yin and yinnizing. To maintain your own yang, granting the benefit of the doubt would be O.K.-- for a limited time. Klara's sentiment is well taken and I am certain she means to say that being open is an advantage beyond blind acceptance.

I think Macrobiotics has gotten a bad name because people have expected it to be a magic wand that is automatic and results will happen without much deep effort or involvement. There are no guarentees in life (except eventual death), and so with Macrobiotics. Life is dangerous and can be very messy. Even so, we still choose to live, but no one is immune to mistakes.

Living is not automatic and is far more than stuffing food in one"s face. We must create and earn the values that allow us to be alive. Macrobiotics is a philosophy with particular attention to diet. Diet is key and critical but only a single aspect of living. Living can be reduced to two alternatives--"To be or not to be". I personally have chosen Macrobiotics as one tool for improving the quality of my own life. By virtue of seeing things in terms of yin/yang it addresses everything and can help to integrate the whole experience.

Nothing is exempt from the yin/yang phenomena and all things are relevant and have a place. Finding and indentifing proper place is the art form. Does this or that fortify or undermine a particular circumstance? Does it contribute to being or not being? Every food, color, sound, texture, shape, form, attitude, intention, person, circumstance,etc. has a yin/yang implication and can be used to integrate or disintegrate. Life is a constant progression of choices (the root of morality) and judgement is the quality of our choices, good/bad---high/low.

Macrobiotics is really in its infancy, even after 60+ years. We have only begun to scratch the surface. I consider myself a 40 year beginner. Every day with every breath is a new beginning. Death also is a new beginning. Everything eventually becomes worm "dodo", which in turn feeds new life -- and so it goes-on and on.

The most workable balance is in the lesser extremes. Go slowly and observe. It is my own judgement that sudden and extreme moves, and repeated over extended periods of time cause the most problems. It is illuminating to note that several marathon runners have died after consuming large amounts of water suddenly during or immedeately after running. While they were dehydrated and conventional wisdom would suggest drinking. The very act of drinking flushed so much sodium from their system they died. A case of extreme and sudden change improperly balanced. As security against honest ignorance or oversight, go slowly and diligently observe.

There are tons of information out there both Macro focused and not. Gold is where you find it!

Manymoons

[Manymoons]

Klara

Even old Macrobiotics are not immune from telling old jokes! I it is among my favorites because of it's depth of implication.

It is heartening that you express appreciation for my post, including an offer of a living situation -- way beyond the call of duty -- but flattering.

There is no end to it all. My understanding grows everyday and often in directions that prove to be less than workable. It is all part of the process.
At best we can hope to come to greater understanding to live more fully. I think this Macrobiotic-yin/yang stuff holds a key, but how to turn it can be illusive.

Feel no reservations about questioning what I write. I am learning by them as well!

Plodding but persistent,

Manymoons

Hi friends, I really enjoyed the responses. Klara, thanks for the advice but due to location/other circumstances it looks like I'm going to be alone on this one. I think I'll be alright though. I just read something recently that reminded me of the quote that Many moons posted and of the yin/yang of genders. Consider this -

"Someone took a youth to a sage and said: "Look, he is being corrupted by women." The sage shook his head and smiled. "It is men," said he, "that corrupt women; and all the failings of women should be atoned by and improved in men. For it is man who creates for himself the image of woman, and woman forms herself according to this image." "You are too kind-hearted about women," said one of those present; "you do not know them." The sage replied: "Will is the manner of men; willingness that of women. That is the law of the sexes - truly, a hard law for women. All of humanity is innocent of its existence; but women are doubly innocent. Who could have oil and kindness enough for them?" "Damn oil! Damn kindness!" someone shouted out of the crowd; "Women need to be educated better!" - "Men need to be educated better," said the sage and beckoned to the youth to follow him. - The youth, however, did not follow him." -Nietzche

May I add my two cents to this discussion? First, I want ManyMoons to know that I love the way he/she writes!

That said, I lived in Boston during the sixties when one or more early deaths were attributed to Macrobiotics. As I remember, it was very common for beginners to start with a ten day rice only diet, and "rice only" or the #7 Diet was said to be the goal by many. Truly, most people are just unprepared for that and all I ever got from it was a wicked headache on about the third day.

There was some talk that at least in one case a young lady died by mixing Macrobiotics with another diet. Was it Kushi who said "Never mix diets!" in response to that one girl's death? I think it was.

In my case I am very pleased in the way that Macrobiotics is changing and will change back to it as soon as I can get to a good store ( about 200 miles away) for the staples. In the past I have found people who were too unbending, too strict, and too focused on their own diets. Now I just think that they are too yang.

Best wishes, and happy Holidays from the Colorado Rockies!

[Klara]

Colorado Rockies!!! Wow, next to Boston that's a place I always dreamed of going, guess because of John Denver. How sad I am/was because he left this earth. He was mb, you know? He contributed a Blueberry Kanten recipe to The Macrobiotic Community Cookbook and he contributed so much wonderful music and other good things to this world. Changes, hard sometimes.

As for finding a good store, you have a wonderful one to start with right here!!! Have you checked out all the great things you can buy on this site - anything that comes in a package you can get and probably even less than what it costs in the stores, and you don't have to go out in the cold - I imagine it's snowing by you?? Then probably all that's left is the produce, from what I understand what's going on in the States, even "regular" markets are now starting to carry some organic produce.

For curious, I feel I owe you a huge apology. It's another balancing act how much advice to give people, especially not knowing their situation. We have a saying, not to judge until you've been in someone else's shoes, and the truth is, one, it's better never ever to judge (or give advice so off the top of the head) and two, we can never ever really be in someone else's shoes. But the point of coming together on the net is yes to try to help and support so do continue all your wonderful questions, and I hope others wiser than me will continue to give you answers. What I shared is what I did when I went to visit my parents in L.A. and didn't know any macro people and I found a wonderful group through the bulletin boards at Erewhon's, who met every other week in someone's home. It was the highlight of my visit. Perhaps the advice did help someone else in the same situation, but might be closer to a health food store. Btw, perhaps there are other places which might have bulletin boards and you can find - a school, a community center, etc. Oops, there I go again, can't stop myself from giving advice. Hmmmm

Klara

I knew no one personally who died at the early stages of macrobiotics, but from Michio's discussions about those cases at the time, and my experience with macrobiotics over the years since then I have come to see that, as Manymoons states, the danger resulted from careening from one extreme behaviour to it's opposite.

(I mistakenly submitted the incomplete post above...I apologize)

I offer this by way of elaborating on point made by Manymoons:

I knew no one personally who died at the early stages of macrobiotics, but from Michio's discussions about those cases at the time, and my experience with macrobiotics over the years since then I have come to see that, as Manymoons states, the events usually resulted from careening from one extreme behaviour to it's opposite. The archtypical case might be of the young woman who came to macrobiotics from several years of drug use, got the message that drugs are extreme "yin" and "bad", and immediately felt she should become more "yang", which is "good". Hearing that salt is yang, she apparently drank an entire bottle of tamari (seeking an American quick fix) which brought about her death.

It should be noted, though, that the tendency to swing to extremes that many of us who come to macrobiotics are subject to does not start with personal behaviour. From a big picture point of view, it is the extreme "yang" nature ("guns, germs, and steel") of the civilization of which we are a part that brings about the appetite for extreme yin (drugs, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine) that brings up the need for extreme yang (too much salt), that, in some cases results in the final yin state (death and desolution).

The ancient orient, evidently, distinguished between different levels of "doctor": The lowest sees, and deals with the symptoms only; the next sees and deals with the cause in personal behaviour; the next finds the source of the problem in "point of view"; the next sees the condition of the individuals having its cause in the condition of society of which he/she is a member; the highest sees the condition of individual as a perfect manefestation of the natural order of the infinite and eternal universe. My feeling is that each of these has their appropriate place. We are neither pawns of larger forses, or do we have quite the free will that we imagine.

Macrobiotics is nothing, if not an appreciation for, and tool to live with, the paradox (two equal and opposite things being similtaneously true) of existence.

Bill