bread help please!

[fiona marshall]

Ok.. I've just about mastered the whole cooking thing. I've learnt that you can't expect rice to puff out just because you put it in the popcorn maker. I can marinade. I can steam. I can boil.

But I cannot make bread that doesn't turn into a huge leaden brick.

Is this my appalling catering ability, or are my expectations unrealistic?

Help!

Fiona

[mike chen]

ok, so what does the bread recipe look like?

[fiona marshall]

Well, as yeast seems to be out, it's one of those ones that starts with a cupfull of whole grain flour which you let ferment for a few days to make a sourdough starter.. then you add more flour, oil, salt, sometimes a little apple juice... pound it into submission, let it rise, bake it.

It turns out the consistency of concrete... is this normal? Or is it due to my vague measuring ability?

[mike chen]

sensei muramoto says that the three ingredients to make bread are flour, water, and good attitutde.

the starter needs a little bit of white flour and water - why? - in whole grain flour you find fiber, and fiber doesn't ferment easily. rather, it putrifies . . .

before using your starter, see if there are bubbles in it. it should be bubbly.

you've covered the top of a small dish into which you've put your flour paste with a paper towel. this is to remove the excess moisture. you've left it for two days outside in a non-drafty and warm area - just a little bit of water and flour paste.

it's good to have a strawberry or grape or some other ripe unwaxed organic fruit nearby, so as to enliven the air with living molecules. another bright idea - though we've not yet tried it - is to rinse the fruit and to use the rinse water for the starter.

the air around the starter needs to be reasonably dry and warm.

the kitchen needs to be chemical-free and not antiseptically clean.

in all of this, you can think of "pampering" the starter.

at the beginning of your bread-baking career, you can anticipate the bread to rise very little, since you are not using a one hundred year starter. the aiharas, who are our teachers, used their first breads as door stoppers. if you have a good signature,
you can sell them as authentic souvenirs!

in the meantime, you can remember that whole wheat flour has a tendency to be difficult in its rising , even with regular yeast, because of the heaviness of grain, so your finished output may be more squat in appearance than your eye is used to.

also, your bread's overall beauty will depend alot on the quality of your kneading. kneading is done vertically. the well-worked dough has the elasticity of your earlobe - that's easy! spelt flour or other less glutinous coarse whole grain flour will not have as much elasticity.

(in the case that you've got difficulty with making your own starter, you can contact GOLDRUSH PRODUCTS 408-288-4090 for a package of theirs.)

(and by far the best mb bread is to be found at pacific bakery, san diego.)

[fiona marshall]

Thank you Mike! Very useful tips and quite a few things I will try differently.

My new starter is in prep as I type and I'll let you know how I get on over the weekend.

I may have some trouble getting starter from your suggested supplier as I am a long way away, in Scotland. Not many macro suppliers here at all, but we do ok.

Fiona.

[fiona marshall]

Ahh Mike, I've tried making bread each weekend and it just keeps on getting more and more leaden *grin*.

Maybe this is a sign I just don't love kneading my dough enough?

My next question (to everyone!) is, if I've found a really really sweet baker who makes the best sourdough bread in the world with proper organic ingredients....

.... is it cheating just to buy it in and not make it from scratch?

[Bruce Paine]

Fiona,

It's cheating if you don't learn how to make a good loaf of bread and if you kill your starter by stopping baking alltogether.

Also, baking regularly car help build character.

To learn more about natural leavened bread baking you might read a post I made last year:

Re: Bread
( http://www.cybermacro.com/forums/for...forum2/read/54 ).

Also, because I get so many e-mails (often from people who aren't even into macrobiotics) who ask me for advice on baking sourdough bread (because of my Cybermacro free web page (Bruce['s Daily Bread]) ( http://www.cybermacro.com/pages/user...brucewalk.html ), Ive decided to set up yet another specialized discussion site called " the fall and RISE of our DAILY BREAD" (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thefal...ourDAILYBREAD/ ) where people can talk all they want about natural leavened bread, sourdough, desem, yeast, organic ingredients, salt, good quality water, or any other natural leavened bread baking related thing they want, and everyone is is invited to check it out, join and post if you want to.

Maybe that will provide a needed service.

I hope that helps, thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine

[jennifer_t]

Hmmm, well, I don't think it's cheating if you buy bread rather than make it yourself. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by "cheating," because Bruce seems to think it is. Maybe I'm unclear as to what you mean when you use that word.

Jennifer

P.S. Have you tried using sour rice (or other grain) rather than traditional sourdough? I've had great luck with these. They rise well and taste great. I've even used sour grain with green mold on it! Now there's some natural yeast!

Here is what I do:

If you have about two cups of sour grain, add another two cups of wheat flour and a pinch of sea salt. Begin kneading. It will be crumbly at first, so you may be tempted to add water but DON'T. Knead slowly and you will eventually incorporate the flour with the grain. You will probably need to add additional flour as you knead. Knead for ten minutes (whew! It's a work out when you aren't used to it!). It will still be a little sticky. Shape loaf as desired.

Grease and flour your baking pan. Place loaf into pan and cover with a damp cloth. Allow to rise for 8-12 hours.

Bake in preheated 250 oven for 30 min. Raise temperature to 350 and bake another 60 to 75 min. Remove from pan immediately and wrap with a damp cloth for several hours before serving. Yum!

If you try this please let me know how it turns out for you!

[fiona marshall]

Jennifer,

I'm willing to give anything a go once.. could explain why I get into so many difficult situations.. *anyway*..

How do you make sour grain? Cook it and leave it in water like you do flour? How much of what?

Thanks!

Fiona

[jennifer_t]

Hi Fiona,

Yea, you can cook it and leave it for 2-3 days, or just use leftover grain that has "soured." A little green mold is fine too. It should have a sweet yet soured smell to it. For your first loaf I suggest you start with about two cups sour grain. I'm not sure how much uncooked grain that equals. I always use leftover grain--I never need to make a special batch for bread because it seems like I always have something in the fridge that can be used. I cook a lot of whole grains. I haven't used all types of grain for bread but I've heard any type will do.

Like yesterday, I made bread with sour oatmeal and some brown rice pudding (the rice pudding had not soured but I used it anyway). Same idea--two cups grain to two cups whole wheat flour (I like to use the pastry flour, I like the texture better, but you can use regular whole wheat flour if that's all you have). A little sea salt, knead for ten minutes, rise for 12 hours, and bake. It was good!

I am always surprised at how much the sour grain breads rise. Give it a try. I'm curious as to how it will turn out for you.

Jennifer

[fiona marshall]

It's in the oven now and smells yummy - I'll let you know tomorrow!

Fi
xXx

[jennifer_t]

Ooooo I'm looking forward to it! :-)

[fiona marshall]

Jen,

well the loaf that smelled yummy sank like a brick, but this weekend I *finally did it*!! I think I wasn't letting it rise enough, so I gave it 24 hours this time and it tastes *great*.

Thank you so much!

Fiona (stuffing her face as she types! yum!)

[jennifer_t]

I'm glad for you! Thanks for letting me know. I was getting a little worried--I wondered if it didn't turn out and you were too bummed to let me know. I'm glad the second one was good though!

Jennifer

[Bruce Paine]

Hi,

I've expanded the size of the site "the fall and RISE of our DAILY BREAD":
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thefal...ourDAILYBREAD/ ) and added many links to various natural leavened bread bakeries, worldwide, and I invite (not just macrobiotically oriented) people from most walks of life to come check it out and join, post, and contribute: links, files, and photos if they wish.

Since I have gotten a bunch of e-mails from people not particularly interested in macrobiotics who found my "Bruce's Daily Bread" (http://www.cybermacro.com/pages/user...brucewalk.html) using various search engines on the World Wide Web (the Internet), I felt compelled to set up that site for them (and for us) so that we all can learn from each other about natural leavened baking, good ingredients, delicious foods, the whole culture surrounding good bread baking, and have a better experience baking,, making and eating good quality foods in general.

Persons who seem to be looking for macrobiotic solutions to their problems, I will send here, when asked.

Please check it out!

Thank you, very much.

Bruce Paine