Rice and Wheat

[Curious]

I just have some advice for those that are considering doing the 10 day brown rice fast. During the fast I was having problems with bloating and constipation.. and it's because rice can be thought of as "binding". It makes a fine paste and sits in your intestines and will be difficult to expel, particularly if you aren't accustomed to eating many grains. I underestimated how much of a problem this might be.

Well, I eat more wheat berries nowadays. They have far more fiber than brown rice and are much chewier which will make them easier to chew 50+ times. They pass through more easily too. Just chew well!

But I was considering that a 10-day wheat fast is a better idea than brown rice, in particular for those of us that aren't orientals. After all, rice is not native to the northeast, the US or Europe. It's not that it should be avoided - but that wheat may be better suited for our bodies. Generations and generations of our families have grown on wheat and that's what their bodies know how to deal with. Rice may be too mushy for us.. and perhaps the small differences in its nutrition may actually nourish those living in the US & Europe and Northern climates much better.

The same goes for sea vegetables and other foreign plants and veggies that we can't pronounce. It doesn't make sense that if we didn't grow up in regions that supplied these foods, that we'd be out of luck when it comes to our health. That's why I would really stay away from shipping strange foods in plastic bags from japan rather than finding out what your local climate has to offer you.

I'm sure brown rice & sea vegetables were great for Ohsawa's body - but ours? It's questionable.

That's just my two cents. Any feedback is appreciated.

[Klara]

There's some amazing seaweed, sea vegetables sounds better, that can be harvested from Maine and Northern California - so it definitely has local and good sources in the States. As for wheat, from my understanding, it is no longer the wheat as it used to be. I only heard this in a lecture so don't have more details of how it's changed or any sources to direct you to. I can find out if you'd like. The base of his lecture was the reason so many are allergic to wheat is because of how it has been mutilated (I'm thinking it had something to do with the big business end of farming).

There has been so much posting lately of those who have experienced the rice diet. It's all so very intriguing. I look forward to reading the #7 Diet book.

What I love most about these "strange foods in plastic bags from japan" is the newness and variety I enjoy in the foods. And since it's not the main foods I eat it doesn't bother me. My favorite food of course is what comes out of the good earth next to my house - that I would love to get better at, and I'm sure I will with time.

Klara

[Curious]

hi Klara - what was your experience on the #7 diet? (if you tried it)

I didn't consider that some sea vegetables can be found in New England but as far as I know, they've never been a significant part of the diet of the people here, so the land must be providing enough. But of course I have nothing against eating them - everyone makes that personal choice. I'm glad you enjoy them.

Oh the whole though I think that the Macrobiotic attachment to the Japanese diet makes it weaker as a theory than it's general drift, supporting all whole grains & veggies.

And yes I'd love to hear more information about the changes of wheat! It probably won't change my attitude much since the bottom line is how your body feels. But thank you -

[lysia jones]

Hello, actually I enjoy spelt the ancient form of wheat. For me wheat has so much gluten it really sticks to my guts, esp in flour form. As long as you are haveing the whole grain that is organic you should be fine, but that paste stuff is super high in wheat - the gluten. Thats why we make bread with it. Spelt has more enzymes and is way easier to digest. Try it for fun! I eat sea veg beacause when I do i feel like I am tapping into the origional life blood food, I am not saying we came from the ocean but it has the essential building blocks for life. People prob moved away from the ocean due to population explosions. Just a thought. Lysia

[Cool Dude]

Hi,

Problems with the digestion of whole grains such as brown rice, might not just be a problem of not chewing enough, but also a digestive system that is not utilizing the food properly, once it gets there.

If one is relatively new to macrobiotics, like anything else, the smartest thing might be to get the body used to the food, first, and then after a good while, maybe 10 days to 4 months, depending on one's condition, one can embark on macrobiotic healing intensives like brown rice fasts and lots of ginger compresses.

One doesn't join a martial arts school and be instantly ready to defend one's self, start medical school and immediately engage in surgery, enter architecture school and immediately start building houses, so why should you enter macrobiotics and immediately embark on a fast on something as extreme?

There is always a middle step of development, and in the case of people starting macrobiotics, it is both getting used to the food and building a organism that ultilizes the nutrients in a maximum way.

One of the first things that a person following a traditional approach to macrobiotics should do beside make cooked brown rice, is also make miso soup.

Miso soup helps the digestive system more easily break down the complex carbohydrates, starches, and fibers, in both grains and vegetables and innoculates the intestings with healthy microorganisms that helps the intestinal villi absorb the nutrients on the path to feeding the body and making good quality blood.

Another good fermented food to have with ones meal besides whole grains, temperate climate vegetables (assuming that you are living in a temperate zone), and sea vegetables, is a fermented or picled vegetable of some kind.

Bruce tells me that he has been experimenting with a grain (mostly organic (og) short grain brown rice with a little bit of another grain like og spelt, og kamut, og rye, og hato muigi, other og whole grains, or lotus seeds), beans (og aduki, black soybeans, chickpeas, or lentils), and og (often unpastuerized) sauerkraut diet.

It seems to us that one can get their fermented foods in various ways whether it be from miso soup, tamari/shoyu added in cooking, umeboshi plum/paste/vinegar, and various other naturally pickled vegetables.

Also, don't get too caught up in the "I only eat local foods or the foods of my ancestors/racial group!" syndrome.

Start out with the foods that seem to best work for everyone including the foods that were first discovered and used in the Orient (there are many things that we use and benefit from that were invented or developed by people of other races and cultures, so maybe we should give thanks for that!) , and then as your health, equilibrium, and well being improves branch out into using the foods that seem to connect you to your ancestors, blood type, or ethnicity, but to be sure always continue in some fashion with the foods that that most nourish and sustain you (that you started with).

If you are going to eat more wheat than rice, then make sure it's organically grown, soaked a good while, and when you can, fermented a little, as well.

Nothing is always black or white, there are grays and other colors, too.

Macrobiotics is a great tool that can help one embark on and experience a great adventure and freedom.

And when you shop for macrobiotic foods, cookware, books, and other products, please visit Simply Natural Foods http://www.simply-natural.biz/ , first!

Be Well.

Cool Dude

[Curious]

Hi,

Yea I really enjoy spelt but I haven't tried to make bread out of it yet - but I will soon! I've also heard that it's an ancient form of wheat. I wonder why wheat has developed gluten over the centuries though. Was this a natural process or human-caused? Perhaps wheat has evolved in some sense?

Thanks for the information Cool dude. Miso soups and other fermented foods are really great.

I completely agree that one needs to adjust themselves to macrobiotics over time but I have no appetite anymore for the foods I once ate, so I've eliminated most of them from my diet. But introducing larger amounts of whole grain is difficult. I've found that processing the grains a bit can aid much in digestion.

I'm not trying to invite any syndromes here but it makes sense to me to find the complement of the Macrobiotic diet in the West.. as a transition process at least. After all I've eaten close to no sea vegetables, miso soup, and more wheat than rice throughout my life. You seem to suggest that one should begin by completely adopting a new diet, followed in the East. But I figure, if you're in relatively good health you should steer to a mirror diet that uses Western grains and vegetables mainly, one that your body is more familar with. For instance, I recently read that that the healthy bacteria Lactobacillus bulgaricus usually does not reside in the intestines of Caucasians but is prevalent in those in the Orient.

There are certainly chemical differences in our bodies. These are things to consider. Of course everyone makes their own choices.

To good eating.

[Cool Dude]

Curious,

Okay, let's say you are in good health and therefore you don't need to follow a diet suggested by followers of the macros who eat mainly oriental foods.

And let's say you are not going to follow some variation of the western meat, dairy, refined foods, and chemicals diet.

What do you eat, how do you make balance, and how do you do it in a way that is cost and enegy effecient, that can be shared with others in a community and in a way that can be universally practiiced?

So far, it looks to me like our oriental friends have that pretty much together in their version of macrobiotics and I've been able to be relatively faithful to it for more than thirty years.

I eat sea vegetables, and miso soup, and brown rice and for more than twenty of my earliest years, I ate the Standard American Diet, and I was able to make the transition (I come from Scottish/English, French and Sicilian stock) to oriental foods, no problem.

Perhaps, it depends on how you do it.

Have you read any of the macrobiotic books or tried any of the recipes?

You mention trying a 10 day brown rice fast, but in this thread, not where you learned about it.

Be Well.

Cool Dude

[Curious]

Hi Cool Dude,

I think Macrobiotics is excellent. Personally it has exposed me to a great way of thinking about my food. There is something about the Macrobiotics diet that I feel is superior to other diets. All I'm saying really is that I don't feel like Macrobiotics is a Japanese diet exclusively. By that I just mean that one need not consume miso soup, sea vegetables and rice to be macrobiotic - at all. The general principles - stressing mainly grains, mainly vegetables, and certain proportions of other foods seem to me, to be the most potent message.

There are many different types of grains and vegetables. I enjoy rice but why should it be considered superior to other grains? I'm not sure why Ohsawa thought of it as the perfect ratio of yin and yang but perhaps it was for him but not for another. Either way, only personal experience will tell. Of course, if you've had great experience with the Japanese type diet, kudos to you. Its really great to hear that.

It simply makes sense to me to stick with things in my local area and things my family has eaten for generations. (in europe) None of them had any exposure to rice and I've had grandparents that have lived almost to 100 in good health. They pretty much solely ate wheat and corn. They also included nightshades, but they didn't have much exposure to white bread or snack bars, so they didn't have any ailments to recover from, like me.

I have nothing against eating foreign foods but I think Macrobiotics can still hold with more familar foods. That's just my gut feeling but if you don't agree with me, that's ok too. We have the freedom of choice

I found this information really interesting in case anyone wants to do more reading on this: http://www.macrobiotics.co.uk/macroorientalfoods.htm

I think that as long as Macrobiotics seems to have a Japanese-preference to it, people will be asking these kinds of questions. Shouldn't a great idea feel universal?

[Cool Dude]

Okay, so besides wheat, what other foods do you eat?

Please take a look in the Simply Natural Foods catalog that so kindly sponsors this discussion site to see if there are any products that you eat or use.

Be Well.

Cool Dude

[Waco]

Currious, are you from the UK?

I am very interested to find out what the best local substitutes are for the foreign foods, unfortunatly at the moment i think i may be a bit intolerant of wheat! What fermented food do we have in the uk? whats beans do we have? are wheat and barley the only grains, whats best for regular consumption?

The reason i want local is not primarily a health issue, it is more of an enviromental one, how many miles did my food travel to get here? how much oil was burned? Also, though we are fortunate in that we can get foods from abroad cheaply at the moment, i very much doubt that in the future this will be so. (heard of oil production peaking anyone? - http://www.fuellingthefuture.org/faq.htm) Of course, our health very much depends on the environment we live in, and the health of the world as a whole.

Thankyou for the link - it looks like i will have to make time to read this!

Thanks

Mark

[andybuildz]

Curious
I started the 10 day rice diet (#7) the first of Jan, 06. It went so well I turned it into two weeks. I had no adverse reactions to brown rice, but thats just me. The last time I did macrobiotics was about 30 years ago so it wasn't like my system was accustomed to a lot of whole grains.
I could fel definate positive effects approx. every few days. Nothing earth shattering but most certainly noticeable. And not because I "wanted" or "needed" to notice them but rather because they honestly were taking place in me.
I'd say the most pronounced feeling was a feeling of calmness even during a hectic day.
I'm a builder so my days aren't sitting quietly behind a desk or computer. I'm really active.
I liked the two week diet so much I can see myself doing it 2-3 x a year.
I found more to it than "just" a food diet.
I could tell how my body was becoming cleansed.
I experianced a discipline that came from my own self awareness that the diet triggered.
I found myself looking at things like a recovering drug addict might see things such as changing my way of "old" thinking to, thinking from a more centered place not from a place of want...more of a place from need.

I'll tell you something else the #7 did for me...it made it easier to become reaquainted with macrobiotics. Sort of like starting from a zero point. Iallowed the toxins to leave my system before starting new again.
This was my personal preferance...something I'm just sharing with you all.

During my two weeks I read a whole lot from old macro books I had as well as new ones I gathered used from Amazon.
My favorite and the one that was most inspiring was/is "We are all Sanpaku".
After reading that...everything else was gravey...so to speak...lol.
Anyway....enjoy and be well.
Namaste'
avi dass aka andy

[Curious]

Hi there...

Waco, I'm actually from the Boston area, but I hear in Northern Europe popular grains are Wheat, Rye, Barley, and Oats. Interestingly the Scottish adored Oats while the English thought it below them. The infamous "Porridge" is simply boiled oats! Actually I read somewhere that Wheat was the grain of choice during the Roman Empire and then fell behind Barely and Rye for a few hundred years and then re-emerged.

Here's a great site on the importance of grains and such..!

http://www.naturalhub.com/natural_fo...eans_seeds.htm

Also, thanks for sharing Andy. Namaste to you too .

[Waco]

Thankyou, i will have a read of that! I find it funny that all our local grains have gluten in, and i have a slight suspicion that i might have a slight intollerance to it, but i am experimenting with that at the moment!

Oats are the best! (though i am not scottish) Ive got to try and find somewhere that will supply me with organic whole oats (as opposed to rolled), Barley and rye are good, though i would like to find a more natural wheat, one that hasn't been bred for high gluten levels, will have to try spelt and kamut

thankyou all

Mark