Question about Skeptics Criticism

[juxtaposezen]

I am new to Macrobiotics and am very excited about it. I also have a very scientific mind that wants to understand things clearly. I have lived by the concepts of Yin and Yang for years just not in the realm of food specifics, maybe only quantity wise.

My question is how is are yin and yang foods classified. If it is not scientific then how? Intuitive? Based on what? At first I thought it was alkalinity vs acidity but this does not hold up.

For example the yin food milk is acidifying and the yin food fruits is alkalizing.
The yang food meat is acidifying and the yin food egg is alkalizing.

Here are where i am getting this:

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html
http://www.holistic-online.com/shiat...su_yinyang.htm

I just dont understand how to balance foods without a science behind it. I seems dogmatic almost. I want to remove the dogma and see the logic.

If you tell me one food is a -3 and i need to eat a +3 food to balance it then that makes sense to me. When you tell me its about chi and meridians and you must just have faith then it makes no sense to me.

Thanks for any help.

Namaste

[Manymoons]

Juxtaposezen

Take nothing on faith!

I agree this yin/yang stuff can sound dogmatic and mystical. There exists little scientific study on these matters specifically at this time. Those of us that adhere to these principles must do so by integrating what information is available from many sources and discovering for our selves what is correct. It's really a philosophical question. Western metaphysics sees things in a mechanical way primarily, which would be yang oriented-having to do with matter. The theorems of yin/yang state that yin/yang are always together. Can't have one without the other. The yin part most come from our own mind/spirit I think.

A human being is an integrated entity of body and spirit--yin and yang. Totally eliminate either yin or yang and all that is left is a corpse or a ghost. Therefore the point of reference to discern yin/yang in terms of food, is what substantiates an integrated person--fortifies and integrates the body and spirit.

The cereal foods have the most subtle yin/yang properties of the food groups and therefore do not impose extremes on the body so they are considered the more balanced. Animal foods (progressively more yang) and vegetal foods (progressively more yin) imposes their respective natures on the body and require more effort to transmute into the yin/yang that is our own being. People are able to transmute to varying degrees according to their basic balance. Disease happens when a person is not able to transmute into the appropriate yin/yang--one or the other overpowers.

Volumes could be written on this matter. Please accept the limitations of this short note. There is a subjective aspect to all of this which leaves the final judgement on the individual person. Yin/yang being always together affords an objective aspect also. Because everything that exists has an identity (yang aspect), they are identifiable (yin aspect).

I may be failing to deliver the clarity you requested. Consider that the clarity will most probably have to come in your mind. I offer these thoughts as my own opinion based on 39 years of experience with this food. I also regard clarity (yang) with high regard. I had to find it for myself.

To summarize: That which takes you out of yourself in yin. That which puts you into yourself is yang---not only in terms of food but in all aspects of living. The balance therefore is to be not into yourself too much and not out of yourself too much. You are part of everything and also remain yourself. The final knowledge comes from integrating facts that are available with personal experience. Nothing is handed on a siver plater--it most be earned.

Acknowledging my own limitation and the range of this topic, I hope that I have given something to think about at a minimum.

Manymoons

[juxtaposezen]

Thanks Manymoons!!! Your thoughtful response was appreciated and your explanation of the existing ambiguity was very helpful.

Of course I am still confused.

You said:

“Those of us that adhere to these principles must do so by integrating what information is available from many sources”

I guess that information is the part that I lack as of yet. I am reading voraciously however but it will take time. Sometimes I feel like a leech coming on a forum and asking nubile questions before doing my homework. But life is homework I guess and I am not trying to be lazy. Sometimes people who care can provide far more than books!

So anyway, the information that does exist is the part that is confusing. What is it?

I will make my question way more concrete although very hypothetical.

Lets say I read 3 things somewhere:

1. “whole grain brown rice is very very yang!”
2. “whole grain brown rice is very very yin!”
3. “whole grain brown rice is very very balanced!”

When I read this I have several questions.

1. What EXACTLY do you base this on?
2. Who do I believe?
3. How can I quantify this yin and yang?

The thing that made me think this was reading something that said that food (a) was slightly more yang than food (b). I forget what foods they where exactly and it may have been yin not yang but you get my point. Lets ay it was a watermelon and honeydew. If some “expert” can say one is slightly more yin or yang than the other then HOW DO THEY KNOW THIS? The word slightly implies some type of objective criteria!!!

Intuition is always based on some fact at the root. One food may for example cause diarrhea and another causes constipation. Well some may call that intuition. I call it fact. Those conditions have biological substrates.

Can anyone yet see what I am confused about? There must be some objective correlate by which to judge these properties. It is clearly not acidy or alkalinity because both exist in yin and yang. So what then is it? If two experts are agreeing then what are they agreeing on exactly?

Sorry to ask such newbie questions before studying myself. I am trying and I am getting there.

Thanks for the help!

Namaste!!

[Manymoons]

Juxtaposezen

I have never heard a stupid question. only stupid answers. Some of those answers have been my own.
I relate to your confusion and also appreciate your need for substance and specifics. I will try to answer as best as I am able in this limited format and within the limits of my own ability to communicate. If this particular post is insufficient, do please continue to ask questions!

Yin/yang can be viewed as an algebraic formula to describe how things relate and interact with each other. It is a relative thing. Those things that congeal and integrate would be of a yangizing nature while those that disperse and disintegrate would be of a yinizing nature. Yin/yang are always present- together.
The question is to discern which is the more dominate--yin or yang. The greatest yin creates the greatest yang. The sun for example is very dense and hot ( yang) and expandingly radiates (yin).
The moon is also dense but less so than the sun and does not radiate much at all. The moon is therefor much less yang than the sun, but has its own amount of yang as it does reflect the sun.
There is no single way to identify yin/yang natures. there are basic attributes of yin/yang that are a starting point such as; -expansion/contraction - cold/hot - light/heavy - absorbing/radiating - receding/advancing - female/male,etc.
For the purpose of eating one must use ones self as a point of reference, --a body and soul--integrated and functioning together as one. This would be the idea perfect balance (most yang condition when that body and soul are integrated). The the degree that the body and soul are separated and less integrated, would be a more yin condition. The body will not remain "healed" if the soul is not also "healed". I have considered the possibility that jealousy and cancer are the same disease, one manifest in the body the other in the soul.

Watermelon and cantaloupe are both on the yin side because they are vegetal-fruit. I would consider watermelon more yang, of the two, because the water in them is less yin than the high concentration of sugar in a cantaloupe. They are both on the yin side compared to the animal side (yang) because they impose a less aggressive nature (in part) when eaten.
The grains are the most neutral yin/yang for a human being because they impose no great yin/yang that over powers the intrinsic yin/yang of a person. This can be considered to be a person's most yang condition -- body and soul integrated. The body and soul integrated is the yin/yang that is us--who we are. When we eat extremes of yin/yang were supersede and suppress our own yin/yang. To be whole we most contain our own yin/yang--the grains allow this the most. All people's balances are not the same and we each have assets and deficiencies of yin/yang. Not many people can eat only grains, they are not strong in their own fullest yin/yang-mother/father-body/soul.
Excessive yin or yang when eaten are both yinizing to a person because they disintegrate the unity of the body/soul union.

I hope this helps. If not keep asking. Soon or later we will hit something.
We are both learning!

Manymoons

Thanks Manymoons. Holy cow this whole thing is finally starting to click now. I knew it would just take a minute to wrap my brain around it. I picked up Jessica Porter’s "The Hip Chicks Guide to Macrobiotics". This book really breaks it all down. Now I just find myself mesmerized and excited beyond belief.

I want to halt this feeling or at least put a leash on it. I am beaming so extreme in a yin way spewing excitement outward that I know the natural balance to that will come if not careful. I can just see me all yanged up in my dark cold hermit hole, depressed and clutching a bowl of brown rice. Lol

I really am blown away by how much sense it all makes though. It feels like discovering the secret meaning of life. I actually find myself asking even more macro questions now.

For example there are 3 theories to the end on the universe, infinite dispersal (yin), completely stopping in gravitational balance (yin/yang balance), or The Big Crunch (yang). If the Big Bang was Yin seems like the Big Crunch would compliment it. Either the system would repeat or spring to a balance. Fascinating stuff.

Another Macro Question that spurred. Is our culture evolving in a yin direction just as the big bang continues to expand. I think so. Democrats (yin) vs Republicans (yang). Studies are showing a slow shift to the left over time in public policy and views. This makes sense in terms of macrobiotics! We are en in expansion/yin phase. Of course it occasionally overexpands (Clinton) and has to contract a bit (Bush)

So anyway WOW is all I can say. Simply WOW. This totally beats Mcdonalds!!!!

Thanks again.

[juxtaposezen]

hmm seems i was not logged in before the previous post. eom

[Manymoons]

Juxtaposezen

It is good to feel your enthusiasm--I feel my own about this stuff everyday. It is a never ending progression of discovery. Be careful about getting to high about it all since that which goes up high must come down hard. That which goes down hard must, of course, must go up high again. Being a Yo-Yo might be fun!?

Culturally and politically I see this country loosing its yang which makes it appear to be (yin) expanding. While your assessment of democrats and republicans as yin and yang is correct, they are, however, both on a yin spiral,- one of disintegration. Neither party has as its primary concern the right of individuals to their own lives, which is to say that we as the people are not supported in having our own yang. When individual's yang is undermined for the sake of some other entity such as "society" or the "greater good(?)" the core yang is denied and castles are then built on sand--not stable or strong. Individuals have become expendable, which says that the yang is expendable. Undermine the yang and the yin is also undermined--no yin/no yang--yin/yang do not exist separately.

The universe is expanding (yin). Since yin and yang are simultaneous, together, there is some point in the universe that is contracting. Perhaps this is the function of Black Holes.

Have fun, look around and see the yin/yang everywhere.

Manymoons